Guiding Principle 1 – Foods and beverages to encourage

over 2 years ago
The portal is now closed for submissions. Thank you for your interest in this consultation with Health Canada about Canada’s Food Guide.

A variety of nutritious foods and beverages are the foundation for healthy eating.

Health Canada is proposing the following recommendations for this Guiding Principle:

  • Regular intake of vegetables, fruit, whole grains, and protein-rich foods* – especially plant-based sources of protein
  • Inclusion of foods that contain mostly unsaturated fat, instead of foods that contain mostly saturated fat
  • Regular intake of water

*Protein-rich foods include: legumes (such as beans), nuts and seeds, soy products (including fortified soy beverage), eggs, fish and other seafood, poultry, lean red meats (including game meats such as moose, deer and caribou), lower fat milk and yogurt, cheeses lower in sodium and fat. Nutritious foods that contain fat such as homogenized (3.25% M.F.) milk should not be restricted for young children.

What are your thoughts on this proposed Guiding Principle and its recommendations from Health Canada? 

The portal is now closed for submissions. Thank you for your interest in this consultation with Health Canada about Canada’s Food Guide. 

  • Birgit Apitius over 2 years ago
    Group of concerned Canadian Physicians and Allied Health Care providers wrote an open letter of recommendations for the revised Canada Food Guide.As someone whose health has improved vastly by following the guidelines in this letter, I strongly concur that these guidelines MUST BE INCORPORATED into the new Canada Food Guide.The link is below.http://www.foodmed.net/2016/canada.pdf
    Hide Replies (793)
    • Dale Williams over 2 years ago
      Wow. Totally agree.
    • Skyking over 2 years ago
      agree
    • Don&Sylvia over 2 years ago
      I agree with most of the content, however grains and dairy should be highly discouraged. Dairy is completely unnecessary in our diet. Grains should be avoided especially gmo's which disrupt healthy gut bacteria and glysoohate tainted grains which also disrupt healthy gut bacteria. All processed food should be highly discouraged with the vast majority being very unhealthy.
      Hide Replies (633)
      • natcatbrown over 2 years ago
        We need to take a gradual approach as we have to look at the current eating habits and how to evolve them into new ones ( ie. someone drinks milk every day for 20 years, hard to change that)
        Hide Replies (341)
        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
          Just watch a Mercy for Animals video on the Dairy industry, I ditched all dairy that day and I was drinking milk all my life until that day.
          Hide Replies (332)
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            That's great, so you watched a vegan propaganda film and concluded dairy must be bad? Well I have 35 plus yrs of dairy farming experience and can tell you from education (3 degrees) and experience in the industry (35 yrs) you ought to avoid the animal rights propaganda, none of the studies they cite are peer-reviewed, or if they claim they are they don't have a quasi-experimental design in the methodology, This consultation process is worrisome because clearly the vegan activist agenda is trying high jack this process. Vegan keyboard warriors have an edge here because farmers don't have time to sit behind a computer screen all day. Luckily I was able to find some time to defend an honorable industry.
            Hide Replies (325)
            • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
              Hide Replies (4)
              • cnote over 2 years ago
                This is the key point. There is no dietary need for milk beyond the first few months of life and that need is not for cows milk. Given that cow-based dairy (is "dairy" specific to cows or just milk in general?) is not a natural food for any humans, it is hard/wrong to recommend dairy as a required food group. That we can drink milk, doesn't mean we should. The second big point is that dairy farming uses a lot of water, however that is not really a reason to discount it in terms of a healthy diet. I never drink milk, but I will have a tablespoon of yogurt on my fruit while a cheddar cheese and pickle sandwich is a beautiful thing.
                Hide Replies (2)
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Try coconut kefir....better than yogurt : )
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Removed by moderator.
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Removed by moderator.
            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
              Hide Replies (186)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                See this is the difference, you base your opinions on animal rights propaganda, you admitted it yourself with "I watched an undercover investigation how dairy cows are treated" by who exactly? Mercy for Animals, PETA? If you can tell me that those organizations don't have an ill informed agenda I feel sorry for you. Now the rape comment is uncalled for, you need to be more professional in the language you use, it's strictly based off emotions, now what I bring is education in the manner (3 degrees) and a lifetime of actual work experience in the industry, that trumps any YouTube video. Now please review the regulations (all are backed up by veterinary records) and let me know where the systemic abuse is taking place.http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dr-rl&s2=canada
                Hide Replies (185)
                • lmadril over 2 years ago
                  True there is a lot of propaganda videos out there disproving the need for dairy. Is there any info that has factual basis to why it is good for human adults? Considering no other species in world drink mothers milk past infancy? That to continue to produce you have to force unnaturally the cows physically to continue to produce? I just recently stopped eating animal products, not at first because of these videos they are referring but because I couldn't see what purpose there was to have it. You keep responding that its just movies and they are wrong. But no defense to why dairy is right and what could make all the negatives that are factual that make it worth it to keep having milk? Well of course other than its your lively hood and something you have done for your entire life?
                  Hide Replies (178)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    I have provided peer-reviewed sources to the benefits of consuming dairy, here is a summary of the studies conducted on the health benefits of dairy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/
                    Hide Replies (163)
                    • Francois over 2 years ago
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        haha here is some "correct" info (posts vegan site links) ever hear of confirmation bias? Peer review is the process used by publishers and editors of academic / scholarly journals to ensure that the articles they publish meet the accepted standards of their discipline, posting links from agenda based sources which have been widely discredited is not research my friend.
                        Hide Replies (5)
                        • LH over 2 years ago
                          The site referred to as 'vegan site links' clearly offers peer reviewed evidence based science from all the reputable medical and scientific journals. I also have Education degrees in this field and have been offered perks and incentives to use information from lobby groups - the Dairy Nutrition Council at that time. The debate you are referring to has crossed into a much bigger inclusive world of science, and I think that you may need to acquaint yourself with the current evidence available.
                          Hide Replies (4)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            It actually doesn't, try citing next time. I also suggest you read the current scientific literature https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/ and care to out which lobby groups try to offer you perks and incentives? Didn't think so.
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Here is some current evidence, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/(External link) which lobby groups offered you perks and incentives?
                            Hide reply (1)
                            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                              Removed by moderator.
                          • hortense over 2 years ago
                            So far your responses, LH, are very effective. In this case unrelenting reason goes before emotion. Good work.
                    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                      Do you ever wonder why such research NEVER finds anything wrong with milk consumption ...- funding from the Dairy Research Institute- grants from the Danish Dairy Research Foundation- Dairy Research Institute- funding from the Global Dairy Platform- Dairy Research Institute and Dairy Australia- Centre of Healthy Dairy Products- The Dairy Council (London)- European Milk Forum
                      Hide Replies (23)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        "The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/ Unless you can identify the research design flaws, inadequate data collection, skewed analysis it's unfair to make this some type of Cowspiracy...sorry I mean conspiracy, in the posted studies. This is why peer-review is important, and that's what these verified studies bring.
                        Hide Replies (22)
                        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                          It's time to figure out a different livelihood....kale chips are huge...this one Cdn company charges $8.00/bag for their organic kale chips and I support them.
                          Hide Replies (21)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Removed by moderator.
                            Hide Replies (20)
                            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                              You no longer need to reply to my other statements. I made my voice clear, I do not consume any diary products and I personally feel better and so do other people that finally do not consume any diary products. I will advocate this notion to all of my loved ones and friends and anyone who listens and understands there is no need for cow's milk. I'm done, I feel good about it and I hope Canada will make the right decision as a progressive decision to banning dairy one day in the near distant future. I know this takes time but eventually it will all make sense. I will no longer be making any comments on this discussion as you are clearly aware where I stand. You can comment going forward, but this is the last reply you will hear from me as I am busy with my life. Good luck and try something else that is a healthier choice for humans, the environment and for the animals welfare. Cheers!
                              Hide Replies (19)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                what if I told you you could simply not write about your 'beliefs' without making a dramatic exit speech?
                                Hide Replies (18)
                                • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                  I already tell everyone how beneficial a plant based diet is. Next in my plan is to get involved with the schools to send them some information on nutrition. I already see that plant based recipes are now making their way in some cooking shows. I predict a sharp decline in animal food consumption for the next few years and better health indicators.
                                  Hide Replies (17)
                                  • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                    You are only communicating your bias without proof. I hope you are right about improving health indicators but I believe it will be because we stop eating sugar which is as bad as alcohol and cigarettes.
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    So you're telling everyone to turn vegan, or no?
                                    Hide Replies (5)
                                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                      I tell everyone about the health benefits of a whole food plant based. You can call it vegan if you like.
                                      Hide Replies (2)
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        So that's a yes, and you said "I'm not bias"....interesting.
                                        Hide reply (1)
                                        • Rickcouture over 2 years ago
                                          I'm biased by the science....so i'd call that a good bias to have. If the science said Mcdonalds Big mac, fries and a Milkshake are the healthiest diet you bet I would eat that every day.
                                    • realoxana over 2 years ago
                                      Removed by moderator.
                                      Hide reply (1)
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        Please be respectful and not make assumptions.
                                  • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
                                    That is great can you show documentaries too? Start with "Revolution" By Rob Stewart. RIP Rob. https://therevolutionmovie.com/
                                    Hide reply (1)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      I bet you watch Loose Change and now think 9/11 was an inside job
                                  • realoxana over 2 years ago
                                    Removed by moderator.
                                    Hide Replies (6)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      Removed by moderator.
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      Change isn't good when it's misinformed, I'm a professional statistician and researcher actually with 3 degrees, so I know what I'm talking about. Dairy is good for you its that simple.
                                      Hide Replies (4)
                                      • Rickcouture over 2 years ago
                                        I'm a regular person with 2 eyes, 2 ears and an open mind. I've read a lot of the research summaries, articles and listened to both sides' best arguments, so I know what I'm talking about. Dairy is bad for you its that simple.
                                        Hide Replies (3)
                                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                          Hide Replies (2)
                                          • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                            Again, repeated link to this article whose authors are all paid by the dairy industry. This is advertising, not valid science.
                                            Hide reply (1)
                                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                              Yea Rick, anything published and peer-reviewed by the US National Library of Medicine is not science.....
                                  • Rhea over 2 years ago
                                    I think we can all agree that eating plants is generally the best plan. There is no need for hatred or derision. How about this: I am not a vegetarian because I love animals, but because I hate plants- haha
                    • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
                      Removed by moderator.
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Read the book Whitewash by Joseph Keon. Also again, I don't need studies, I have a co-worker with severe rheumatism and she is not so old and since she started to ditch all diary products, "Wow" she told me, she can walk again and feel much better. Personally myself, I feel better, I am close to 50 years old and I feel young again. I was a 3 cup drinker of skim milk 6 years ago. My father died a horrible death, I researched the food industry and milk is not good for anyone except babies. I'm tired of studies and research, I keep saying it's just not normal for a human to drink any species of another animal that it was intended for. I understand this is your lively hood, but others born into changed. Mad Cowboy: Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher went vegan and not sure if you know the Heir to Baskin Robbins, John Robbins wrote this: What made you decide to walk away from your father’s Baskin-Robbins empire?When my uncle, Burt Baskin, died of a heart attack at the age of 54, I asked my dad if he thought there could be any connection between his death and the amount of ice cream he would eat. (He was a very big man who ate a LOT of ice cream.) My dad said, “No, his ticker just got tired and stopped working.” I could understand why my father would not want even to consider the possibility that there might be a connection between ice cream and heart disease. He had by that time manufactured and sold more ice cream than anyone in the history of the planet. But I felt a responsibility to look into it. And I came to the conclusion that ice cream, which is full of saturated dairy fats and sugar, was indeed linked to heart disease.An ice cream cone isn’t going to kill anyone, but the more you eat, the more likely you are to have heart disease, diabetes, and many other problems. If you’re in the ice cream business, you want people to eat a lot. That’s the business model. And I didn’t want to make my living selling a product that might be undermining anyone’s health. Also, I visited the large commercial dairies where Baskin-Robbins got its dairy products, and I saw how the cows were treated. It broke my heart to see them treated so poorly. I found the idea of profiting from such cruelty to be appalling.Please understand where we are coming from, most of us were not born vegan, but I couldn't live with myself saying I love animals and eat them and use them.
                      Hide Replies (45)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        There are many variables at play and there is no casual evidence to prove moderate or even increase dairy intake leads to heart disease. Many factors come to play, genetics, exercise, sleep, stress etc. Should one consume a lot of ice cream absolutely not, I'm not advocating that, what I'm defending is keeping dairy for those that wish to consume it, and keeping it in the Food Guide is a benefit to many Canadians. I'm appalled at any conditions where animals are treated cruelty, it doesn't make sense to treat your animals badly, one it's cruel and inhumane because cows are truly sweet animals, and secondly if your cow is stressed or in pain it won't produce up to regulatory standards which means you have to dump the milk and then you're in a big financial hole. Anyway, I appreciate the respectful dialogue, it's a rare occurrence on this form.
                        Hide Replies (29)
                        • Mia A over 2 years ago
                          Sure, if people want to drink milk, this is their choice, but I wish that the cows would not be given hormones and have their calves be taken from them when very young so that the cows bring in a high rate of return for the farmer. What happened to animal welfare? If we could go back to old farming practices when the animals ate real food, lived in real environments and were treated humanely, milk as well as red meat, would not be such a health hazard. We would have the good nutrition without the risk of illness.
                          Hide Replies (12)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Hi Mia,I understand your concerns, and my father and grandfathers generation certainly farmed differently than mine, I couldn't imagine the hard days they went through. Dairy cows are not given hormones at all, and our animals are given the strictest of care and for good reason, if the animals aren't healthy and happy they will not produce the milk as per the regulated standards which means the milk can't be purchased, and with the high overhead a farmer wouldn't last more than a month or two.Here is a source to demonstrate what our animal welfare code and practice are, we also have regular inspections to ensure our animals are kept in good conditions and are healthy. http://www.nfacc.ca/codes-of-practice/dairy-cattle
                            Hide Replies (9)
                            • Mia A over 2 years ago
                              Thank you for this info Ryan. It is somewhat comforting to know that standards are set up for the welfare of farm animals. These standards meet the minimum requirements. They are not close to what healthy animals deserve. As I mentioned elsewhere, my parents were farmers and I had the privilege of experiencing farm life as it should be. I also witnessed the changes over the years that made it difficult, if not impossible, to sustain the quality of animal care. Sad for the animals and sad for the farmers. Not sure what the answer is but the reality is not good. Animals should be grazing on fields and having a relationship with the farmer...
                            • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                              Too bad Chilliwack Dairy Farm, BC, didn't follow the animal welfare code of practice. The biggest dairy farm in Canada. You have to wonder how many dairy farms operate in this manner. It took undercover investigators to expose them. I'm sure you all know well beforehand, when inspectors are due.
                            • lotus over 2 years ago
                              I'm slowly learning about factory farming and it has made me decide to eat differently including no milk, yogurt or cow cheese. It bothers me on a deep level to see that female cows are continuously artificially impregnated to keep them making milk and new calfs taken from them within 48 hrs. This does not seem humane to me at all.
                              Hide Replies (4)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                That's because none of that is true. Cows are bred when in heat but there are also drying off periods as well. And calves are kept close to their mom's and given their mom's milk.
                                Hide Replies (2)
                                • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                  false ... all male calves are killed very soon after birth
                                  Hide reply (1)
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    Where in Canada was this filmed? Sounds like this may be somewhere outside of Canada Eugene. Well this is where actual experience comes in play over what you see on the internet, I've seen us raise some of the males or we trade them with other farms, we've never shot one, that's just fact. You need to visit a farm Eugene (in Canada).
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                That's because cows aren't continuously impregnated (they are female though, you're right on that), and new calves (not calfs) are given their mothers milk and put in a bedded stall and are well cared for.
                            • DanielleAW over 2 years ago
                              So how do you explain the Chiliwack Cattle case (among dozens of other undercover footage cases exposing animal cruelty in Canada)?
                              Hide reply (1)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                There were a few idiots that got what they deserve, the vast majority of farmers do not treat their animals like that at all. Does that mean we should paint all Canadian farmers with the same brush?
                          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                            Cows don't even need to be give hormones, Milk is a concentrate of naturally occurring cow hormones designed to make a baby cow grow into a 800lb+ beast. Milk is full of estrogens because the cow has to be pregnant to give milk (just like humans) and it is also very high in IGF-1 (a known cancer causing hormone in humans). Plus there is NO way to have "humane milk" you are stealing it to begin with from an animal that does not give you consent and it needs it for it's own babies to be healthy (we feed cows garbage that causes them to be bloated and get chronic infections). Organic milk and meat have the same hazards as non-organic ones, same parts of milk and meat cause disease and organic milk and meat are actually even more devastating than non-organic for the environment. It is a lose-lose situation for everyone involved in this equation.
                            Hide reply (1)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              Removed by moderator.
                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                          Again Ryan, I truly sympathize with your situation, really! In spite of any past encounters we may have had. I'm sure that dairy cows are much better treated in Canada than in the US where most of this pathetic behavior is going on. I am glad that you respect animals. At least on that point we are on the same side of the fence and you have my blessings for your compassion! That being said, I need to stress that human beings are the only species that drinks the milk of another species and the only species that continues to drink it even after they are weaned. Clearly, this is unnatural. Many of us have bought into ideas, myself included as I decided to leave a lucrative medical profession when I woke up to the fact that my training was essentially useless in terms of helping to truly prevent the nutritional causes of diseases, and that is a painful, both emotionally and financially, realization. So I grieve with you. I only wish I had someone to grieve and understand my precarious situation when I went through it over 15 years ago. Blessings.
                          Hide Replies (15)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            That''s okay to have your opinion of whether it's "natural" or not. All I'm trying to do is provide correct information from many blatant lies from others, such as cows are beaten continuously, they are killed, milk causes cancer and autism, osteoporosis etc., none of which are true given the studies and history to prove milk is fine and is actually nutritious. Now if someone wants to be vegan because they simply don't believe in consuming animal products that's fine, you're free to choose what you want. But why try to destroy others livelihoods and passion based off assumptions, lies, and propaganda?
                            Hide Replies (14)
                            • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                              Well I'm sorry too, that your objectivity is colored by your financial investment in the animal industry. Best wishes.
                              Hide Replies (13)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Objectivity? No it's called education and experience, have you ever actually been to a dairy farm?
                                Hide Replies (12)
                                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                  Removed by moderator.
                                  Hide Replies (11)
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    Removed by moderator.
                                    Hide Replies (6)
                                    • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                      Removed by moderator.
                                      Hide Replies (5)
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        Removed by moderator.
                                        Hide Replies (4)
                                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                          Removed by moderator.
                                          Hide Replies (3)
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            Removed by moderator.
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            "The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts." Where in the research design, data collection, analysis, inferences, final report, do they make a mistake? So the the entire meta-analysis is faked because of the sponsors? In order to conduct research you need money, the Carrot producers of America wouldn't fund such a study for obvious reasons. Dairy has been forced to respond because of the propaganda that many perpetrate.
                                            Hide reply (1)
                                            • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                              Removed by moderator.
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    And I highly doubt you're a Dr when you make the inference that all those diseases are caused by animal products with absolutely no medical evidence to support that.
                                    Hide Replies (3)
                                    • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                      Removed by moderator.
                                      Hide reply (1)
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        Removed by moderator.
                                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                      Yikes!
                      • Mia A over 2 years ago
                        And it is one thing if animals are given a natural diet, a natural environment and humane treatment, and another to pump them with unnatural food, hormones, antibiotics, keep them in cage-like environments and abuse them at that. Can meat and milk be healthy from an ill-fed and stressed animal? Wouldn't such an animal be laden with stress hormones? Is this healthy food for us?
                        Hide Replies (13)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          You're right, they certainly could not produce, and I would argue the milk would not be quality if the animal was in any way stressed. Our animals are not kept in cages but freely roam the pastures, well until it's time to milk. Again dairy cattle are not pumped with unnatural food, but they are given a supplement of grain, the vast majority of their diet is grass and hay, all perfectly natural. I assure you the milk is inspected and tested and only the milk produced with the strictest assurances are on store shelves.Source: http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dr-rl&s2=canada
                        • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                          Google Chilliwack Dairy Farm, BC. The largest dairy farm in Canada. 95% of all the farms in Canada are now factory farms. Gone are the days of the small, caring family farms. In the old days the cows had names, now they are just numbered with an ear tag. They are nothing but commodities now. It took undercover investigating to expose Chilliwack. They were charged and convicted of animal cruelty.
                          Hide Replies (4)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            I know what happened in Chilliwack and it was awful, I'm glad those few workers got fired and charged, and in my mind should have gotten far worse. There are a lot of small dairy operations still in place, we personally still name our cows, so I don't think it's fair to paint all dairy farmers with the same brush as those individuals at the Chilliwack farm."95% of all farms are factory farms" where did you get this figure from? Now, I know that total total farm area in Canada in 2011 was 160.2 million acres, down 4.1% since 2006. But, despite the overall decrease in farms and area, the average size of farms increased since the previous census. Compared to 2006, the average size of a Canadian farm increased from 728 acres to 778 acres, a growth of 6.9% so yes there is a trend that farms on average are growing but that depends where in the country you are, for example 152 acres is the average farm size in NFLD and Labrador. Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/95-640-x/2011001/p1/p1-01-eng.htm .
                            Hide Replies (3)
                            • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                              You are talking about the acreage of farms. An Ottawa Globe & Mail article by Barrie McKenna, June 25, 2015. Canada's Dairy Industry Is A Rich, Closed Club. Quote "When the supply management system was created in the late 1960's, there were nearly 140,000 dairy farms in Canada. Today there are fewer than 12,000, and every year a few hundred disappear, as farmers leave the business." The supply of milk has not dwindled and the demand by the ever increasing population is increasing, so obviously the 12,000 or less dairy farms are substantially bigger than they use to be.
                              Hide Replies (2)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                I was given you context and trying to determine where your "95% of all farms in Canada are 'factory farms' come from, again, where did you get this figure from? I read your article from Barrie and don't see it in there.
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                                  I saw the 95% about a year ago. The article by Barrie was to show the reduction in the number of dairy farms. I could only find information on the US percentage of factory farms. Statistics Canada will not utter the words "Factory Farm", so all the information is hidden in their wording. If you just do the simple math from the article above, you will see. If each of those 140,000 dairy farms in 1960's had 10 cows, that would be 1,400,000 cows. In 2016 there were 11,280 farms, according to Statistics Canada. The Canadian population was just over 21 million in 1970, now it is just over 36 million. The population has increased by over 1/3 since 1970. That would mean that there has to be 1/3 more milk production in 2017, than there was in the 1960's, in order to keep up with the demand. I couldn't find an article on dairy factory farms, but just a general one on all animal agriculture farms. Again it is US based. "It's Time To End Factory Farming" Huffington Post. Oct 19, 2011. Nil Zacharias. Even though I live in Toronto, I am not unaware of dairy farms. My daughter in law's family are all dairy farmers in Park Hill, Ontario, near London. Her grandfather, then her 6 uncles and aunts. They all have large, modern dairy farms, with huge contracts with the dairy product producers.
                        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                          There is no humane treatment when they are turned to a slaughterhouse before there own natural death? We don't need any milk after our human mothers weaned us off....look at animals before humans ever existed..it's called a business to make money which of course abuses animals.
                          Hide Replies (6)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Actually lots of cows do die a natural death, if they are in pain I do believe euthanasia is appropriate to negate needless suffering. Okay let's look at the history of animal agriculture: "Cattle, goats, sheep, and pigs all have their origins as farmed animals in the so-called Fertile Crescent, a region covering eastern Turkey, Iraq, and southwestern Iran. This region kick-started the Neolithic Revolution. Dates for the domestication of these animals range from between 13,000 to 10,000 years ago.Genetic studies show that goats and other livestock accompanied the westward spread of agriculture into Europe, helping to revolutionize Stone Age society. While the extent to which farmers themselves migrated west remains a subject of debate, the dramatic impact of dairy farming on Europeans is clearly stamped in their DNA. Prior to the arrival of domestic cattle in Europe, prehistoric populations weren’t able to stomach raw cow milk. But at some point during the spread of farming into southeastern Europe, a mutation occurred for lactose tolerance that increased in frequency through natural selection thanks to the nourishing benefits of milk. Judging from the prevalence of the milk-drinking gene in Europeans today—as high as 90 percent in populations of northern countries such as Sweden—the vast majority are descended from cow herders."https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/development-of-agriculture/
                          • Mia A over 2 years ago
                            Personally, ckadlec, I am concerned for injesting enough calcium. I know plants have some but you have to consume huge amounts to get enough so I do eat some yogurt - never liked milk.
                            Hide Replies (4)
                            • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                              Milk is NOT a good source of Calcium and milk consumption is NOT associated with better outcomes for bone health ... it is actually worse. Just google Hip Fractures Map and than Milk Consumption per capita ... the maps are nearly identical (the more a country drinks milk, the more hip fracture rates)
                              Hide Replies (2)
                              • Mia A over 2 years ago
                                Yes, I read that after my posting. A little scared to let go of the old belief but how can one get enough calcium?
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                                  Great article here talks about the role exercise and a 'lower' protein diet can have on bone strength... so while the amount of calcium that we require may be less than many of us were taught/told, there are TONS of plant-based sources of calcium too (see bottom of page): http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vsk/vegetarian-starter-kit-calcium
                            • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                              Removed by moderator.
                      • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                        I too stopped all dairy products after suffering from rheumatoid arthritis for over 5 years involving both first metacarpal joints, C3-C7 joints and L4-L6 joints and after 2 weeks the pain and stiffness were completely gone. Ok, a single anecdotal case study, I grant you that, but if you also suffer from RA, try it and document your progress. You may be surprised.
                    • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                      Scan down to the section on "conflicts of interest and funding". I'm not saying that industry funding necessarily means bad science, but it sure (and particularly the scope of it on this piece) doesn't do much to leave an impression of independence and objectivity. Given that basis for funding the research (and indeed the careers) of these particular academics, the "background" section up top reads more like a threat analysis and the whole article is designed off the bat to counter this 'wave of skepticism' that is sweeping over the foolish, mis-informed public.
                      Hide Replies (21)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Yes and scan down just a little further...what does it say? The studies are peer reviewed and valid. Now if there was an erroneous error in the methodology, data collection, analysis then we could discuss. But you can't dismiss medial research on the assumption it was fudged.
                        Hide Replies (20)
                        • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                          Sorry. If you can lean on your experience in/with the dairy industry, I'll lean on mine in academia. I'm not saying peer-reviewed journal articles aren't a good basis for decision-making - indeed, they should be - but saying something got published therefore it's infallible is off base. I don't know the Food & Nutrition Research journal in particular, but there is a continuum of respectability/credibility and downright ethics in the publication of academic journals. Some are simple pay to publish rackets. Should I look up the backgrounds and funding sources for the editorial board for that journal? I could critique meta-analysis as a method itself, which has many inherent flaws. The impact factor of Food & Nutrition Research is rather low... and it's eclipsed by, among others, "Meat Science". Not that impact factor is a perfect indicator either. Hmm... do you suppose that "Meat Science" would publish my empirically valid, highly reliable study about the colorectal cancer risk involved in processed & red meats?Journals have their biases, and academics have bills to pay that are not always easy on shrinking faculty salaries. Examining the funding sources of the authors and considering the impact of this on the research, despite the 'no influence' statement, is fair game. The line between academia and industry is blurring very quickly, and the idea that those industries don't have some explicit or implicit sway over what gets researched, submitted for publication and presented (and NOT researched etc.) is laughable. Even if there were a sinister broccoli lobby or 'big kale' influence on some of the plant-based diet research out there, you would have to admit it pales in comparison to the scope and scale of the mammoth meat & dairy influence.
                          Hide Replies (19)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            I'll also rely on my three degrees, including graduate level education in statistics and research methods, and my work as a professional researcher and policy analyst. There is a lot of faulty research out there yes, but there is also good research out there as well, with my meta-analysis link I've provided peer-reviewed scientific research and simply ask if you think the research has faults, other than the sponsors, and again the onus is on you to show what's wrong with the studies, pointing to the sponsors doesn't suffice. It will be a dangerous world if we just point to who paid for the study and then say well "it's got to be wrong". Will the Carrot Producers of America fund a study about the effects of soy beverages on heart disease, no. Will the 'Eye Dr's of Brazil' fund a study about milk and its effect on bone development, again no. Organizations/departments will pay for research for a question they wish to study and know. To say well look at the 'sponsors', the research is now 'questionable' is just lazy.
                            Hide Replies (18)
                            • nzouri over 2 years ago
                              Dairy industry funding research saying dairy is good for you is like tobacco industry funding research saying tobacco is good for you.
                              Hide Replies (17)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Then let's see a peer reviewed study from the last few years saying smoking is good for you that's published and sponsored by the Tobacco industry. I bet you can't find one and it's becauseThe scientific consensus knows better, comparing tobacco and dairy is ridiculous.
                                Hide Replies (16)
                                • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                                  That's precisely the writing that's on the wall with dairy and meat. We're early days right now, but the shift is well and truly underway. It's understandable that industry will rally the troops and fund studies, yes even peer reviewed studies, to shore up their investments and sunk costs just as the cigarette industry did. The dairy industry has never had to deal with a 'threat' like they are seeing. With 140 comments on this page to your name, it's apparent you sense some urgency too. A wild and crazy prediction: meat and dairy consumption will 'soon' be seen as similar to smoking is presently. Individual choice, and of course not illegal or unseen, but very much against the grain of progress.
                                  Hide Replies (7)
                                  • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                    No studies have proven dairy or meat increases mortality and after all this time I doubt more studies will show anything else. Even the WHO's report on processed meat being a carcinogen has faded away because they could not come back with the actual reasons for saying that it changed the rate of colorectal cancer from 5% to 6%. If they really knew what caused colorectal cancer then they would know what caused the 5% to begin with.
                                    Hide Replies (3)
                                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                      High-fat dairy products associated with a higher risk of mortality after breast cancer diagnosis. https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article/105/9/616/986948/High-and-Low-Fat-Dairy-Intake-Recurrence-and and Milk consumption is a risk factor for prostate cancer: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2012/12/18/jn.112.168484.short and http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/4/549.short and http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327914nc4801_4 and Higher dietary calcium intake associated with cardiovascular mortality: http://heart.bmj.com/content/98/12/920.short
                                      Hide Replies (2)
                                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                        Wow is that misleading - Intake of high-fat dairy, but not low-fat dairy, was related to a higher risk of mortality after breast cancer diagnosis. - based on people filling out forms of what they ate over the years.So many 'associated' I couldn't count them all!
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        Let's take it one study at a time instead of trying for information overload.Okay regarding the last study (BMJ link)? Your claim is dairy leads to cardiovascular mortality?Let's look at that data. After an average follow-up time of 11 years, 354 MI and 260 stroke cases and 267 CVD deaths were documented. Compared with the lowest quartile, the third quartile of total dietary and dairy calcium intake had a significantly reduced MI risk, with a HR of 0.69 (95% CI 0.50 to 0.94) and 0.68 (95% CI 0.50 to 0.93), respectively. Associations for stroke risk and CVD mortality were overall null. In comparison with non-users of any supplements, users of calcium supplements had a statistically significantly increased MI risk (HR=1.86; 95% CI 1.17 to 2.96), which was more pronounced for calcium supplement only users (HR=2.39; 95% CI 1.12 to 5.12).So conclusion, dairy intake helps lead to lower risk of myocardial infarction, as opposed to those that take calcium supplements which increases your risk for MI. Thank you :)
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    I feel education is important, I just like debating climate change deniers, 9/11 Truthers, Bigfoot believers, the anti GMO movement, anti-vaxers, and vegan activists.
                                    Hide Replies (2)
                                    • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                                      That's wonderful company you've thrown us in... if/when this food guide comes out would that count as vegan activism on the part of the Canada Food Guide? Are the FAO and WHO vegan activists for pointing out the climate and heath risks associated with animal agriculture and meat consumption respectively? Many times you've said you don't mind people choosing to be vegan, so why can't you leave it at that if we're all 'drinking the kool-aid' and beyond help? At 192 comments and counting on this thread, I think you can say education mission accomplished, OK?
                                      Hide reply (1)
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        Removed by moderator.
                                • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                  Hide Replies (5)
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    There, big tobacco and vegan activists have something in common, falsifying research.
                                    Hide Replies (4)
                                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                      Dairy industry has something in common with the tobacco industry: manipulating research data, paying researchers, advertising, etc. Yikes!
                                      Hide Replies (3)
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        Okay, so show me where dairy has manipulated research data. Waiting.....
                                        Hide Replies (2)
                                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                          If you open your eyes you can see studies designed to conclude in the industry favor. Its not that hard: look into the sample size, with what the results are compared with, etc. Dairy industry sponsors these researchers because is very effective in reaching the consumers and because it implies validation. They are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They are doing it to advance their economic interests.
                                          Hide reply (1)
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            What sample size? What are you even saying, there's a conspiracy and US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health was paid off? Yikes
                                • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                  Philip Morris used to have an add saying that smoking is less harmful than milk. You can google it. It seems like was based on a scientific study.
                                  Hide reply (1)
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    Okay.... let's see that study then....waiting....
                    • fififinn over 2 years ago
                      Funded by the US Dairy Lobby?
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Please see my earlier comments.
                    • robynmckay over 2 years ago
                      There is zero benefits from dairy that you can't easily find somewhere else. Studies have shown that there is no benefit even the calcium that we need
                      Hide Replies (41)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Once again you need peer reviewed sources not subjective assumptions. There are benefits that's not a debate.
                        Hide Replies (39)
                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Actually I don't see anything in there that shows that ditching dairy leads to better health at all.
                            Hide Replies (37)
                            • nzouri over 2 years ago
                              Adopting a plant based diet leads to better health, this is proven. The studies for which I provided links above prove that. If there is any risk factor I have control over it, I would prefer to control it. Dairy is a risk factor for numerous diseases" breast cancer, ovarian cancer, prostate cancer, Alzheimer. Diet is a factor we can control to prevent these diseases. Cancer is a terrible disease, Alzheimer is hell and but with every plant based meal we improve our health a bit. A plant based diet means eating as many plant foods as we can, 100% plant based is best.
                              Hide Replies (36)
                              • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                A plant based diet without supplements has not been proven to be healthier, eg. reduced all cause mortality. Your opinion is not convincing. Alzheimer's is now called type 3 diabetes - caused by inflammation as a result of sugar overload triggering insulin resistance. If you want to live longer then don't get diabetes.
                                Hide Replies (5)
                                • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                  I will correct that - Plant based is fine as long as it also includes meat. I eat a lot of green plants and some meat and dairy. Ditched the sugar and processed foods.
                                • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                  Actually, it has been proven numerous times. Here are some links: plant based diet protects against cardiovascular diseases) http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07315724.1998.10718786?src=recsys and http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/19562864 The only supplement a plant based diet requires is B12. However, there are vegetarian sources of B12 as well (nutritional yeast for example). If you do not want to get diabetes, eat plants and exercise. Therefore plants are best.
                                  Hide Replies (3)
                                  • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                    If you don't want to get type 2 diabetes don't eat excessive amounts of sugar and easily digestible carbohydrates. The vegan diet goes beyond a reasonable bias. I'm sure the other one is equally ridiculous.
                                    Hide Replies (2)
                                    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                      so why is it that carb rich diets like frutarians and vegan have lowest rates of diabetes ?!? if your theory was right they would have the worst rates, but nothing is further from the truth
                                    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                      Removed by moderator.
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Again you can't make assertions like dairy causes cancer, alzheimer's etc, this is fear mongering to scare people to become vegan. Unless you can substantiate those claims with peer-reviewed science (studies done in the last 5 yrs preferably) it's careless to assert otherwise. No one is debating that consuming vegetables and fruits is bad for you, those should be in everyone's, diet, but dairy as well can be incorporated for a healthy diet as the meta-analysis has shown- dairy has a lot of positive health benefits.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/
                                Hide Replies (28)
                                • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                  I am happy to hear that you agree that plants are beneficial for health. Fear mongering comes from the dairy industry who scare people into believing that without dairy they would not be healthy. In reality, populations groups with lowest intake of meat and dairy have the best health indicators.
                                  Hide Replies (22)
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    Can you provide an example where the Canadian dairy industry has claimed "without dairy they (you) will not be healthy"? As where I have provided plenty of vegan/animal rights propaganda perpetrating that dairy will cause cancer, alzheimers, autism, etc. So who in reality actually fear mongers? Again, the reality is dairy and animal agriculture has benefited the societies that consume it. ", the dramatic impact of dairy farming on Europeans is clearly stamped in their DNA. Prior to the arrival of domestic cattle in Europe, prehistoric populations weren’t able to stomach raw cow milk. But at some point during the spread of farming into southeastern Europe, a mutation occurred for lactose tolerance that increased in frequency through natural selection thanks to the nourishing benefits of milk. Judging from the prevalence of the milk-drinking gene in Europeans today—as high as 90 percent in populations of northern countries such as Sweden—the vast majority are descended from cow herders." Source: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/development-of-agriculture/ Also, if we look at the best places to live on earth, and those that are most happy, which countries tend to be at top consistently? The Nordic ones. Now is dairy directly responsible, no, but it's undeniable it did have a role to play over the last few thousand years.
                                    Hide Replies (21)
                                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                      The dairy industry had numerous ads claiming that you need minimum 3 servings of dairy per day to meet the calcium requirements. You can see this in all dairy industry websites. This implies that without consuming dairy you will not get enough calcium, which is not true. Sweden is in one of the top ranking countries in the world for their death rates due to chronic diseases. Among the factors influencing this outcome are diet and cholesterol. http://www.healthdata.org/sweden
                                      Hide Replies (20)
                                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                        What has the death rate in Sweden got to do with dairy? Their lifespan is increasing year on year. Where do you think they are getting the cholesterol from? It's not fat, it's carbohydrates.
                                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                        So if Canadian dairy recommends 3 servings a day to get enough calcium (which is true by the way) and you're claiming what they are really saying is "without consuming dairy you will not get enough calcium" ? Can you point me to some sources to verify Canadian dairy advocates only drinking milk to get calcium and to avoid other calcium sources since that is the premise of your argument? Okay checking your source the top 4 causes of death in Sweden are 1) Ischemic heart disease 2) Cerebrovascular disease 3) Alzheimer disease and 4) Lung Cancer. So you're saying what influences these diseases are diet and cholesterol. And (correct me if I'm wrong nzouri) dairy is directly linked to these diseases? Did you notice something in the comparison of the figures for those rates which you claim 'top ranking countries in the world'? These are all European and North American (and Australia) comparisons (dairy consuming countries) not world my friend. This is a classic case of cherry picking... when you look at the WHO for all countries on the planet and life expectancy can you guess how many countries come before the first one on that comparative list (The US)? Close to 150 countries! That's right, the dairy consuming countries are at the top threshold of life expectancy in the entire world. Now does dairy directly cause higher life expectancy, no I would never claim such a thing, http://www.who.int/gho/publications. /world_health_statistics/2016/Annex_B/en/ so highest dairy consuming countries are (let's take the top 4....1) Finland, 2) Sweden, 3)Netherlands 4) Switzerland source: Source http://chartsbin.com/view/1491 When we cross reference the data Finland comes in at 21 for both sexes life expectancy rankings, Sweden comes in at 9, the Netherlands at 14, Switzerland number 2.Now when we look at the countries with the least dairy consumption ranked to 100 (not past) 1) is South Sudan 2) is Maldivas, 3) Iran and 4) Morocco, their life expectancy is South Sudan at 174, Maldives at 59, Iran at 76 and Morocco 100.
                                        Hide Replies (18)
                                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                          1) Ischemic heart disease 2) Cerebrovascular disease 3) Alzheimer disease are chronic diseases caused by diet and lifestyle. People are living longer due to modern medicine but are sick the last 20-30 years of their life. So people are not healthier due to increased milk consumption. The life expectancy is lower for the countries at the bottom of the list because of wars, famine and poverty as well as an inefficient/inadequate medical system.
                                          Hide Replies (2)
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            Hey so now you're backing away from your original argument? Interesting.
                                            Hide reply (1)
                                            • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                              I do not see as backing up from the original argument. But I understand why you would want to make it appear that way.
                                        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                          Hip fracture rates is the #1 indicator of bone health (calcium) and the countries that consume the most milk do not have the best bone health.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004072/
                                          Hide Replies (2)
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            So you're saying dairy causes hip fractures? I'm confused as to what your argument is.
                                            Hide reply (1)
                                            • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                              drinking milk for calcium (bone health) does NOT work, it's a scam !
                                        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                          List of countries with most milk consumption per capita:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_milk_consumption_per_capita
                                        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                          Hide reply (1)
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            Nice propaganda. Try actual research studies.
                                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                          When between 66%-86% of Indo-Canadians and roughly 30% of Chinese Canadians are lactase deficient and have lactose intolerance (not to mention all other immigrant ethnic groups I haven't mentioned) do you think it is ethical for Health Canada to suggest in their food guidelines that cows " milk should not be restricted for young children"? This sounds like a racist policy to me, you?
                                          Hide Replies (8)
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            Wow really grasping at straws here, so now milk is racist? Quite the accusation my friend be careful.
                                            Hide Replies (7)
                                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                              You have proven your confirmation bias quite profoundly. If it's not health, it's environment, if its not health nor environment, its for ethical reasons, if it's not for those it's for allegations of systemic abuse, if it's not for any of those it's for evolutionary reasons, if it's not for those it's because milk is racist.... confirmation bias to suite ones believes no matter the cost is a dangerous road my friend and right now you're speeding.
                                              Hide Replies (6)
                                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                                Removed by moderator.
                                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                                Those who promote a plant based diet may have many reasons like health, environment, ethics, etc. You have economic reasons to try to maintain the status quo. That is the most dangerous bias.
                                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                                You mentioned earlier about you being a 12 generation farmer with family still involved in the dairy industry, with personal connections in the dairy industry and you are trying to say that you are not bias? It does not pass the common sense test.
                                              • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                                Yes, I admit I am biased towards personal, public, and planetary health and do not apologize for that, unlike others who are biased by financial motives.
                                                Hide reply (1)
                                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                                  I don't even know what you two are arguing about anymore. Okay quote me where I say I make any type of money from dairy?
                                • Mia A over 2 years ago
                                  This is a good read Ryan (the meta-analysis on dairy). Personally, I will have yogurt each day, the equivalent of 300ml of milk.
                                  Hide Replies (4)
                                  • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                    This analysis was heavily funded by the dairy industry and hence its design, outcomes and interpretation are highly suspect as outlined by Marion Nestle an expert in research conflict of interest ethics: "Most of what we know about the effects of sponsorship comes from a very large body of research on funding by the cigarette, chemical, pharmaceutical, and medical device industries. The results of this research are remarkably consistent: they demonstrate that industry funding influences the design, interpretation, and outcome of research. Nutrition is late to this type of investigation, but several recent studies show that studies funded by the food industry almost invariably favor the interests of the sponsor. Publication bias against negative studies explains only a small part of these findings." taken from her site at: http://www.foodpolitics.com/tag/conflicts-of-interest/
                                    Hide Replies (3)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      "Highly suspect" just because YOU are skeptical does not mean the research isn't valid my friend.
                                      Hide Replies (2)
                                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                        Research is invalid if is paid by the food industry. Its not science, its advertising.
                                        Hide reply (1)
                                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                          Numerous research studies published in US National Library of Medicine- National Institutes of Health that are peer reviewed are not science? ....yikes.
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Removed by moderator.
                      • pmt99955 over 2 years ago
                        Benefits from dairy? How 'bout cheese?!! No one can convince me that cheese made from any other animal than a bovine is wonderful tasting cheese!
                    • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                      Don't forget to include the Conflicts of Interest Footnotes to the above quoted study!Conflicts of interest and funding:Tanja Kongerslev Thorning has no conflicts of interest to declare. Anne Raben is recipient of research funding from the Dairy Research Institute, Rosemont, IL, USA and the Danish Agriculture & Food Council.Tine Tholstrup is recipient of research grants from the Danish Dairy Research Foundation and the Dairy Research Institute, Rosemont, IL. The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts. Sabita S. Soedamah-Muthu received funding from the Global Dairy Platform, Dairy Research Institute and Dairy Australia for meta-analyses on cheese and blood lipids and on dairy and mortality. The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the meta-analyses, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts. Ian Givens is recipient of research grants from UK Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC), UK Medical Research Council (MRC), Arla Foods UK, AAK-UK (both in kind), The Barham Benevolent Foundation, Volac UK, DSM Switzerland and Global Dairy Platform. He is a consultant for The Bio-competence Centre of Healthy Dairy Products, Tartu, Estonia, and in the recent past for The Dairy Council (London). Arne Astrup is recipient of research grants from Arla Foods, DK; Danish Dairy Research Foundation; Global Dairy Platform; Danish Agriculture & Food Council; GEIE European Milk Forum, France. He is member of advisory boards for Dutch Beer Knowledge Institute, NL; IKEA, SV; Lucozade Ribena Suntory Ltd, UK; McCain Foods Limited, USA; McDonald's, USA; Weight Watchers, USA. He is a consultant for Nestlé Research Center, Switzerland; Nongfu Spring Water, China. Astrup receives honoraria as Associate Editor of American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and for membership of the Editorial Boards of Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism and Annual Review of Nutrition. He is recipient of travel expenses and/or modest honoraria (
                      Hide Replies (18)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Again "the sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts." The meta-analysis is valid and peer-reviewed, as a professional researcher I'll let you know how these studies work. One you have a hypothesis or research question you want answered, two you hire professionals to conduct that research. Why aren't you able to show fallacies in the research design, data collection, inferences, analysis, the report itself?
                        Hide Replies (17)
                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                          Show me the contracts the researchers signed to secure their funding from their sources! Then we'll talk.
                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                          Besides, I very much doubt you have any research experience.
                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                          And, Meta-analyses are the ultimate in the Cherry Picking Charade that the meat, dairy and other related industries engage in. So there is a great deal of obfuscation in such studies to even waste my energy or time to make any comments on what is clearly biased "research" as you would like to call it.
                          Hide Replies (14)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Please be respectful in dialogue, again how is it bias if the research was validated? Again the sponsors played no role, again why aren't you able to critique the methodology, data collection, analysis at all? As a professional researcher if you don't agree with the studies you must point to why the conclusions are wrong based off the data, the links are all there, so again where are the fallacies nick?
                            Hide Replies (13)
                            • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                              I am as respectful as you who derided my credentials as an MD with no evidence to the contrary. Thank you for that! As an "objective researcher" you of all people should know that there is a huge body of research looking at the "validity of research" that comes from for profit funding sources that makes your request sound misguided. Here is a quote form an expert in this field, Marion Nestle from her site at: http://www.foodpolitics.com/tag/conflicts-of-interest/ "Most of what we know about the effects of sponsorship comes from a very large body of research on funding by the cigarette, chemical, pharmaceutical, and medical device industries. The results of this research are remarkably consistent: they demonstrate that industry funding influences the design, interpretation, and outcome of research. Nutrition is late to this type of investigation, but several recent studies show that studies funded by the food industry almost invariably favor the interests of the sponsor. Publication bias against negative studies explains only a small part of these findings."
                              Hide Replies (12)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                You are an "energy healer" I'm sorry but in my books those aren't valid credentials. You are only able to copy and paste the same assumption over and over and are not able to articulate the problems with the research studies themselves..why is that? Perhaps because you were unable to find design, data, analysis flaws in the studies themselves?
                                Hide Replies (10)
                                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                  Removed by moderator.
                                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                  On another note, from one of your other posts, which I can seem to find where you claim I am biased. Yes, I will admit I am biased, towards personal, public and planetary health and have absolutely no financial stake (unlike others I know) in this discussion. I'm sure you can say the same?
                                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                  Removed by moderator.
                                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                  Ok, so you deleted my because you couldn't counter. Thank you. Kindly re-read my previous post on the vast amount of researcher bias presented by Marion Nestle, an expert in her field. I have declared my credentials, if you want me to believe you are a researcher, please declare your credentials as well as some published studies you have. Clearly if this is what you are you would know that funding bias is a crucial issue in the credibility of any research. Only "researchers" who are driven by financial motives might choose to pretend to themselves that such issues are irrelevant. It is incumbent on you given the heavy dairy presence in the study you quote to prove, yes, prove, there was no influence. But you can't, all you can do is attack me and my real credentials as a way of deflecting from the truth.
                                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                  Removed by moderator.
                                  Hide Replies (5)
                                  • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                    Removed by moderator.
                                    Hide Replies (4)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      I actually can't delete your posts, the moderator does if they deem one is off topic or is disrespectful, I've only logged on this evening. Onus probandi means one that accuses must prove that is the case. And the accusation is the studies are falsified because of the industry sponsors.
                                      Hide Replies (3)
                                      • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                        Yes, Marion Nestle has provided ample evidence for industry sponsored studies to be highly suspect already making your argument weak . I know you are in denial (by not even acknowledging her work) about Nestle's findings but the truth is reputable scientists who do not accept such funding view industry funded research with great caution! So if you want to be credible, I would like to you see you present a credible study that is NOT FOOD INDUSTRY FUNDED that even begins to support your position. (Going to ask the moderator to delete this one too?)
                                        Hide Replies (2)
                                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                          Please be respectful in dialogue Nick. I find it concerning that you stick with the same argument about sponsorship when the US Library of Medicine has confirmed the sponsors played no role in the study themselves. And for the record I don't flag your comments so stop with assumptions.
                                          Hide reply (1)
                                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                            "I found you are heavily ensconced in the ice cream business. Killing people with ice cream," I'm actually not in the ice cream business, I bet you think I'm an R&B artist as well after your Googled my name? So many threats Nick. And please stop threatening me.
                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                Well said Nick! We need independent research, not industry paid advertising.
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    And I'm not sure what other animals do past infancy is a source of consideration given human evolution and achievement.
                    Hide Replies (12)
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Human evolution and achievement...no other species is destroying this planet like humans are? Achievement? We have starving babies all over this world and you call this achievement? There is no empathy anymore...all you want is your livelihood....that's it.
                      Hide Replies (5)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        My argument is how agriculture has benefited human civilization, not about starving babies, please stick to the topic and please don't make assumptions about people you don't know and their intentions, you don't know me.
                        Hide Replies (4)
                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                          Agriculture has benefited the humans mostly through convenience: food supply was more predictable and easier to access. This in turn allowed people more time to focus on other activities, therefore innovation. Since you are implying that animal consumption resulted in higher intelligence, care to provide a study that is not sponsored by the industry that positively connects intelligence with animal food consumption?
                          Hide Replies (3)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            You want me to provide a study to a vegan on the benfits of animal products like eggs, dairy and lean beef? You've showed your confirmation bias so there isn't any point your mind is made up.
                            Hide Replies (2)
                            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                              There are many vegans over 100 years old...and doing well...no studies or research needed. Case in point.
                              Hide reply (1)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Well that's actually not a case in point, that's just claim you just made. I thought you were done debating with me? Lol
                    • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                      Evolution and 'progress' perhaps? It's interesting to tout the benefits of change while presenting views that might be seen to be clinging to the status quo. There are many things about our status quo that represent achievement and apparent 'progress', but there's nothing wrong with letting go when the time is right or enough people seek alternatives. Thinking about oil (sure gave us a lot, but the clock is ticking...), colonialism, slavery, all presented societal leaps and bounds in terms of productivity and GDP etc., but once the previously unknown or deliberately obscured costs become known, change is/was in the air. Many are waking to the environmental (including biodiversity loss etc.), health and indeed ethical costs of animal agriculture at a global scale. The way forward is rarely the same as how we got to where we are.
                      Hide Replies (5)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Yea but just because a vegan says that doesn't mean it's true. I have provided plenty of scientific evidence from peer reviewed sources and more importantly dairy experience. You have provided assumptions and no peer reviewed medical journals to substantiate your claims. If we follow your lead it's only a matter of time before we stop with GMOs, stop vaccinating our children, and assume the earth is flat again.
                        Hide Replies (4)
                        • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                          I have read many peer-reviewed sources revealing the risks and potential harms associated with dairy and meat consumption, and more importantly (evidently) I have lived experience with a change in diet. Are you also implying that there is no peer-reviewed evidence behind these changes to the Canada Food Guide, or that there is no evidence behind the WHO's listing processed meats as a Group 1 carcinogen, and red meat a Group 2A carcinogen? I don't feel any particular need to spar with you. Is the onus not also on you to disprove every peer-reviewed study in support of a plant-based diet? The evidence, from non-industry supported researchers, is mounting. You've mentioned to others that they've drank the vegan 'kool-aid'. If that kool aid includes the WHO, FAO's 14.5% figure, and every peer-reviewed, independent piece of literature in support of a plant-based diet, then yes many of us have drank the kool-aid.Yes I know it's an organization with an 'agenda', but please go through all the supporting literature at nutritionfacts.org and get back to us when you've unravelled the scientific merit of each of those peer-reviewed publications. You've just implied that veganism is akin to flat-earth, anti-vax ignorance and climate denialism... it's quite the opposite. The only ones with something to lose from a rise in veganism is indeed industry. Will they adjust, shift, pivot or get left in the dust?
                          Hide reply (1)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Haha it is, and you can't point to any such studies, nor able to critique mine at all.
                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                          Zero scientific evidence because it is all funded by self interested food industry advocates.
                          Hide reply (1)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Studies published by the US National Library of Medicine- National Institutes of Health that are peer-reviewed is indicative of "zero scientific evidence", did your "energy healing" tell you that Nick?
                  • pmt99955 over 2 years ago
                    Cheese....it tastes good...
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  One thing that the general population fails to understand about Vegans. It's not just about the diet. Vegans are also for the environment, for peace, for equality and really love. Taking a baby calf from their mother is not love, it's an evil practise. I also have a Degree in Environmental Studies from U of T. My husband and I chose not to have children a long time ago because we knew how bad the climate would get, it was a sacrifice but we have zero regrets in doing it. I just look at other species in this world, I don't need scientific proof of any study, no other animal drinks milk after they have been weaned from their mother. But you should watch some of these videos yourself because most farms are factory farmed and cruel and Canada has one of the weakest laws in transportation of farmed animals headed to slaughter, many arrive dead on arrival, so you maybe this righteous farmer, most are not and are destroying this planet at a record pace. I still think it is abnormal to drink milk beyond infancy...otherwise I would go to my mother's every night and suck on her breasts since they at least are human. Question for you, what is veal?
                  Hide Replies (4)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    And here I thought you were ready for respectful dialogue.
                    Hide Replies (3)
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Removed by moderator.
                    • billybt over 2 years ago
                      WOW !
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Removed by moderator.
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
            • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
              Three degrees from universities funded by big ag and big pharma amount to very little. Much of what's being taught is a curriculum guided in great part by corporate interests.Animal activist are responding to bad practice in the factoring farming industry. Malpractice is rife but often well hidden. Animal activists provide genuine footage of abhorrent animal abuse. There will always be work for them to do while these industries and government put profit ahead of animal welfare. If we don't like their message, we should be removing all the causes of their concerns.
              Hide Replies (34)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Okay so you think I'm in some kind of conspiracy? I'm telling you based on actual farm experience systemic abuse isn't rampant like these animal right groups try to convey. Take a look at the regulations, the medical requirements, the comfort checks, the inspections, the testing that takes place, all of these regulations are backed by actual records, not speculation! I'll tell you why it's important to keep the health and comfort of Holsteins as a top priority. Other than it's the right and ethical thing to do (no one debates abusing animals is right) you can't run an operation if the animals are stressed in any manner...why? Because they won't produce in quantity, and more importantly quality milk for you to sell, there are certain quantifiable thresholds for the milk makeup, if the animals is in distress they won't meet those requirements, and if you can't sell your milk you can't cover your overhead which means...you guessed it you're out of business.
                Hide Replies (33)
                • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                  I was not suggesting you're conspiring, of course. No one said abuse is systemic or rampant (and unless you have regularly visited all the farms and animal processing facilities in the Western hemisphere yourself, you're not really in a position to decide whether it's s systemic problem—you're relying on reports). Animal husbandry malpractice exists and significantly so. Factory farming is, by its nature, cruel. These are the issues. Issues that are being tackled by people who want to actively defend animals.You talk about "inspections" but I think we all know they're largely ineffective because of chronic under-staffing and the inspections are not without warning. Most farmers with good practices are that way because they're good people. The bad ones mostly get away with it. Mostly.
                  Hide Replies (9)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Okay so you said no one is saying systemic abuse occurs but at the same time say malpractice exists and "significantly so" that's a contradiction. The inspections do work and they are conducted regularly, I've posted a few times the numerous regulations so I advise one read those to show all the checks. And myself have visted over 200 farms, as well as managed 300 head herd. Yourself?
                    Hide Replies (7)
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      What is veal?
                      Hide Replies (6)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Delicious
                        Hide Replies (5)
                        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                          Hide Replies (2)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            What? You're not making any sense, please reiterate your argument coherently.
                            Hide reply (1)
                            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                              Removed by moderator.
                        • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                          Hide reply (1)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Removed by moderator.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    This is off topic from the diary industry, but I visited Costa Rica and a small farmer told me, do not think you are buying organic products from our country. If anything, inspectors may visit once per year to check if they are practising organic farming and if they are not, the inspectors get paid well. This is coming from an organic farmer himself, he doesn't certify himself organic but he practises it regardless.
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Give me a break, on Global National News they even showed disturbing footage of chickens in a chicken factory farm in BC where they slammed chickens against the wall thanks to Mercy for Animals undercover workers. You must be an animal hater or in disbelief. Conspiracy, it's called reality of 100% factory farmed animals. They live in deplorable conditions. Question, why is their an antibiotic resistance page on the Canadian government website? Please read it. Animals are not forced on your farm?...well if a you were confronted by a serial killer and he told you to do what he wanted, you would do it to live...again animals are fearing for their lives as well and will do what it takes to live even in misery. You should be proud of what Mercy for Animals does for the welfare of animals..going undercover...you must not be an animal lover if you so care so much about your cows. Cows milk = $$$$ You live in a fantasy world...and climate change is not real either.
                  Hide Replies (12)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Can I give you suggestion? Try to balance your argument, don't jump from topic to topic (chickens, factory farms, saying I hate animals, antibiotics, serial killers, Mercy for Animals, cows, climate change) it will steer the conversation in a more constructive manner, otherwise.
                    Hide Replies (10)
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Removed by moderator.
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Removed by moderator.
                      Hide Replies (8)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        I have three degrees and have farmed all my life and you infer the whole process was a controlled experiment where my parents brainwashed me? Lol okay okay you win I'll go vegan now ;)
                        Hide Replies (7)
                        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                          Yes, I have three university degrees, all from the University of Toronto, and one is a graduate degree in medicine. What are yours?
                          Hide Replies (5)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            In "energy healing?" I have a PhD in advanced research methods.
                            Hide Replies (4)
                            • nzouri over 2 years ago
                              Removed by moderator.
                              Hide reply (1)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Nope, and if you look you'd see. What's your education?
                            • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                              Really? Show me your published studies.
                              Hide reply (1)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Okay here you go:1. Park YW, Zhu S, Palaniappan L, Heshka S, Carnethon MR, Heymsfield SB. The metabolic syndrome: prevalence and associated risk factor findings in the US population from the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988–1994. Arch Intern Med. 2003;163(4):427–36. [PMC free article] [PubMed]2. Laaksonen MA, Knekt P, Rissanen H, Harkanen T, Virtala E, Marniemi J, et al. The relative importance of modifiable potential risk factors of type 2 diabetes: a meta-analysis of two cohorts. Eur J Epidemiol. 2010;25(2):115–24. [PubMed]3. Dietz WH, Gortmaker SL. Preventing obesity in children and adolescents. Annu Rev Public Health. 2001;22:337–53. [PubMed]4. Dror DK. Dairy consumption and pre-school, school-age and adolescent obesity in developed countries: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Obes Rev. 2014;15(6):516–27. [PubMed]5. Lu L, Xun P, Wan Y, He K, Cai W. Long-term association between dairy consumption and risk of childhood obesity: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2016;70(4):414–23. [PubMed]6. Gilbert JA, Bendsen NT, Tremblay A, Astrup A. Effect of proteins from different sources on body composition. Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2011;21(Suppl 2):B16–31. [PubMed]7. Bendtsen LQ, Lorenzen JK, Bendsen NT, Rasmussen C, Astrup A. Effect of dairy proteins on appetite, energy expenditure, body weight, and composition: a review of the evidence from controlled clinical trials. Adv Nutr. 2013;4(4):418–38. [PMC free article] [PubMed]8. Astrup A, Raben A, Geiker N. The role of higher protein diets in weight control and obesity-related comorbidities. Int J Obes (Lond) 2015;39(5):721–6. [PMC free article] [PubMed]9. Abargouei AS, Janghorbani M, Salehi-Marzijarani M, Esmaillzadeh A. Effect of dairy consumption on weight and body composition in adults: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled clinical trials. Int J Obes (Lond) 2012;36(12):1485–93. [PubMed]10. Chen M, Pan A, Malik VS, Hu FB. Effects of dairy intake on body weight and fat: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. Am J Clin Nutr. 2012;96(4):735–47. [PMC free article] [PubMed]11. Booth AO, Huggins CE, Wattanapenpaiboon N, Nowson CA. Effect of increasing dietary calcium through supplements and dairy food on body weight and body composition: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials. Br J Nutr. 2015;114(7):1013–25. [PubMed]12. Maghsoudi Z, Ghiasvand R, Salehi-Abargouei A. Empirically derived dietary patterns and incident type 2 diabetes mellitus: a systematic review and meta-analysis on prospective observational studies. Public Health Nutr. 2016;19(2):230–41. [PubMed]13. Gao D, Ning N, Wang C, Wang Y, Li Q, Meng Z, et al. Dairy products consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes: systematic review and dose-response meta-analysis. PLoS One. 2013;8(9):e73965. [PMC free article] [PubMed]14. Aune D, Norat T, Romundstad P, Vatten LJ. Dairy products and the risk of type 2 diabetes: a systematic review and dose-response meta-analysis of cohort studies. Am J Clin Nutr. 2013;98(4):1066–83. [PubMed]15. Tong X, Dong JY, Wu ZW, Li W, Qin LQ. Dairy consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus: a meta-analysis of cohort studies. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2011;65(9):1027–31. [PubMed]16. Bergholdt HK, Nordestgaard BG, Ellervik C. Milk intake is not associated with low risk of diabetes or overweight-obesity: a Mendelian randomization study in 97,811 Danish individuals. Am J Clin Nutr. 2015;102(2):487–96. [PubMed]17. Gijsbers L, Ding EL, Malik VS, de Goede J, Geleijnse JM, Soedamah-Muthu SS. Consumption of dairy foods and diabetes incidence: a dose-response meta-analysis of observational studies. Am J Clin Nutr. 2016;103(4):1111–24. [PubMed]18. Astrup A. A changing view on saturated fatty acids and dairy: from enemy to friend. Am J Clin Nutr. 2014;100(6):1407–8. [PubMed]19. Zheng H, Yde CC, Clausen MR, Kristensen M, Lorenzen J, Astrup A, et al. Metabolomics investigation to shed light on cheese as a possible piece in the French paradox puzzle. J Agr Food Chem. 2015;63(10):2830–9. [PubMed]20. Frid AH, Nilsson M, Holst JJ, Bjorck IM. Effect of whey on blood glucose and insulin responses to composite breakfast and lunch meals in type 2 diabetic subjects. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005;82(1):69–75. [PubMed]21. Nilsson M, Stenberg M, Frid AH, Holst JJ, Bjorck IM. Glycemia and insulinemia in healthy subjects after lactose-equivalent meals of milk and other food proteins: the role of plasma amino acids and incretins. Am J Clin Nutr. 2004;80(5):1246–53. [PubMed]22. Rideout TC, Marinangeli CP, Martin H, Browne RW, Rempel CB. Consumption of low-fat dairy foods for 6 months improves insulin resistance without adversely affecting lipids or bodyweight in healthy adults: a randomized free-living cross-over study. Nutr J. 2013;12:56. [PMC free article] [PubMed]23. Soedamah-Muthu SS, Verberne LD, Ding EL, Engberink MF, Geleijnse JM. Dairy consumption and incidence of hypertension: a dose-response meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. Hypertension. 2012;60(5):1131–7. [PubMed]24. Huth PJ, Park KM. Influence of dairy product and milk fat consumption on cardiovascular disease risk: a review of the evidence. Adv Nutr. 2012;3(3):266–85. [PMC free article] [PubMed]25. Musunuru K, Orho-Melander M, Caulfield MP, Li S, Salameh WA, Reitz RE, et al. Ion mobility analysis of lipoprotein subfractions identifies three independent axes of cardiovascular risk. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2009;29(11):1975–80. [PMC free article] [PubMed]26. St-Pierre AC, Cantin B, Dagenais GR, Mauriege P, Bernard PM, Despres JP, et al. Low-density lipoprotein subfractions and the long-term risk of ischemic heart disease in men: 13-year follow-up data from the Quebec Cardiovascular Study. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2005;25(3):553–9. [PubMed]27. Mora S, Buring JE, Ridker PM, Cui Y. Association of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol with incident cardiovascular events in women, by low-density lipoprotein cholesterol and apolipoprotein B100 levels: a cohort study. Ann Intern Med. 2011;155(11):742–50. [PMC free article] [PubMed]28. Krauss RM. Lipoprotein subfractions and cardiovascular disease risk. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2010;21(4):305–11. [PubMed]29. Berneis KK, Krauss RM. Metabolic origins and clinical significance of LDL heterogeneity. J Lipid Res. 2002;43(9):1363–79. [PubMed]30. Sjogren P, Rosell M, Skoglund-Andersson C, Zdravkovic S, Vessby B, de Faire U, et al. Milk-derived fatty acids are associated with a more favorable LDL particle size distribution in healthy men. J Nutr. 2004;134(7):1729–35. [PubMed]31. Lorenzen JK, Astrup A. Dairy calcium intake modifies responsiveness of fat metabolism and blood lipids to a high-fat diet. Br J Nutr. 2011;105:1–10. [PubMed]32. Soerensen KV, Thorning TK, Astrup A, Kristensen M, Lorenzen JK. Effect of dairy calcium from cheese and milk on fecal fat excretion, blood lipids, and appetite in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2014;95(5):984–91. [PubMed]33. Hjerpsted J, Leedo E, Tholstrup T. Cheese intake in large amounts lowers LDL-cholesterol concentrations compared with butter intake of equal fat content. Am J Clin Nutr. 2011;94(6):1479–84. [PubMed]34. Thorning TK, Raziani F, Bendsen NT, Astrup A, Tholstrup T, Raben A. Diets with high-fat cheese, high-fat meat, or carbohydrate on cardiovascular risk markers in overweight postmenopausal women: a randomized crossover trial. Am J Clin Nutr. 2015;102(3):573–81. [PubMed]35. Raziani F, Tholstrup T, Kristensen MD, Svanegaard ML, Ritz C, Astrup A, et al. High intake of regular-fat cheese compared with reduced-fat cheese does not affect LDL cholesterol or risk markers of the metabolic syndrome: a randomized controlled trial. Am J Clin Nutr. 2016;104(4):973–981. [PubMed]36. de Goede J, Geleijnse JM, Ding EL, Soedamah-Muthu SS. Effect of cheese consumption on blood lipids: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. Nutr Rev. 2015;73(5):259–75. [PubMed]37. Tholstrup T, Hoy CE, Andersen LN, Christensen RD, Sandstrom B. Does fat in milk, butter and cheese affect blood lipids and cholesterol differently? J Am Coll Nutr. 2004;23(2):169–76. [PubMed]38. Soedamah-Muthu SS, Ding EL, Al-Delaimy WK, Hu FB, Engberink MF, Willett WC, et al. Milk and dairy consumption and incidence of cardiovascular diseases and all-cause mortality: dose-response meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. Am J Clin Nutr. 2011;93(1):158–71. [PMC free article] [PubMed]39. Hu D, Huang J, Wang Y, Zhang D, Qu Y. Dairy foods and risk of stroke: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2014;24(5):460–9. [PubMed]40. de Goede J, Soedamah-Muthu SS, Pan A, Gijsbers L, Geleijnse JM. Dairy consumption and risk of stroke: a systematic review and updated doseresponse meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. J Am Heart Assoc. 2016;5(5):e002787. doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1161/JAHA.115.002787. [PMC free article] [PubMed]41. Rice BH. Dairy and cardiovascular disease: a review of recent observational research. Curr Nutr Rep. 2014;3:130–8. [PMC free article] [PubMed]42. Qin LQ, Xu JY, Han SF, Zhang ZL, Zhao YY, Szeto IM. Dairy consumption and risk of cardiovascular disease: an updated meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2015;24(1):90–100. [PubMed]43. Alexander DD, Bylsma LC, Vargas AJ, Cohen SS, Doucette A, Mohamed M, et al. Dairy consumption and CVD: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Br J Nutr. 2016;115(4):737–50. [PubMed]
                  • Mia A over 2 years ago
                    Another case of chicken abuse in BC, I read. I wonder how much there is out there-what farm animals have to endure so that we can eventually eat them...
                • billybt over 2 years ago
                  YES!
                • Mia A over 2 years ago
                  Several factory farm workers have said that animal abuse in factory farming is the norm. The ones who cannot take it, leave their jobs.
                  Hide Replies (6)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Can you verify that? I don't know what classifies as a factory farm in Canada, are there noted criteria from the Government of Canada you could refer me to? From my experience on not only my farm but every farm I've been to animals are treated very well with regular veterinary inspections, quality feed, housing, cleaning. So to claim that abuse is the norm in farming in Canada is just not true from what I've not only read, but have seen as well. Can you show me the cross-jurisdictional humane records that would prove that claim though?
                    Hide Replies (5)
                    • Mia A over 2 years ago
                      After the chicken abuse story, workers were interviewed on the news and said that animal abuse is common in farms. This is not to say that all farms abuse their animals and that there are not well meaning and conscientious farmers/workers, but rather that abuse is common and this is disturbing.
                      Hide Replies (3)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Well not surprising they said that considering what they witnessed. But I would say the vast majority of farms and farmers treat their animals very well, not only because it's the right thing to do but also because treating them badly doesn't make financial sense.
                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                        I agree that this should be dealt with but is not appropriate for this forum.
                        Hide reply (1)
                        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                          Food choice affects the environment that is also a key part in human health and sustainability ... we don't live in Kansas anymore
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Can you just Google it? Abuse in Factory Farms...or YouTube it.
                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                  OK, Now I'm confused. I thought you said you were not in the dairy business. Which is it? Yes, or No?
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    You were confused before Nick, sorry to break it to yea. Sad.
            • TS029 over 2 years ago
              I pressed dislike by accident... I meant to like this comment!
            • Francois over 2 years ago
              Very nice but there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Also, saturated fats and trans fats are the cause of diabetes, the first, dairy if the main source especially in cheese and the second is also 2 to 6% of its content depending on dairy products despite research showing the only safe amount of trans fats is 0 mg/day.
              Hide Replies (25)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Fats causes diabetes, are you serious? Haha you guys are making it too easy, classic confirmation bias, I'm glad there are research dummies like Kip Anderson out there spoon feeding you this nonsense.
                Hide Replies (11)
                • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                  But we have science my friend, we have clear mechanisms on how Insulin Resistance occurs in presence of fat.Relationship of dietary fat to glucose metabolism.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10856515Free fatty acids and skeletal muscle insulin resistance.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460913Not only that but Diabetes can be reversed with removal of fat.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23075228
                • billybt over 2 years ago
                  Fat causes diabetes.. Apparently you are not up on the Science Ryan !
                  Hide Replies (9)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Actually I am, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skIGCoopR-g&t=53s review at the 3 min mark for a simple explanation.
                    Hide Replies (7)
                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                      Wow! Is this one of the peer-review studies you relay on? His comments on the guy's pants definitely worth taken in consideration on the benefits of an animal products diet . He is very entertaining though but lacks credibility.
                      Hide Replies (3)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        No it's a YouTube video, why does he lack credibility? Is what he says incorrect?
                        Hide Replies (2)
                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                          The documentary was stating that carbohydrates do not cause diabetes, your guy reduces the statement to simple sugars. If carbohydrates will cause diabetes this would be true, every medical study will say eat less potatoes, rice and bread so that you do not get diabetes. Here is another explanation on how diabetes develops that is similar to what the documentary was showing: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/multimedia/blood-sugar/vid-20084642 A lot more credible than your guy.
                          Hide reply (1)
                          • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                            I fail to see your point about a 2 minute video that explains basic carbohydrate metabolism and the role of insulin. By the way, the insulin resistance explanation given is only one of two hypothesis. The one shown is the lock and key.
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      I'm glad I watched it and got the abridged version!
                    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                      Really, you get your info from ZDogg ?
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                        Dr Walter Kempner in the 1930-40's treated patients with heart failure, severe hypertension, type 2 diabetes, kidney disease and obesity with a simple, non calorie restricted diet and essentially were able to reverse all of these diseases. Dr Roy Swank treated patients with multiple sclerosis in the 1940-70's with a high starch whole plant based diet and was able to not only halt but reverse the disease and some of his patients are still alive and healthy today. Dr John Mcdougall has over the last 44 years treated several thousand of people with obesity, hypertension, CVD, type 2 diabetes, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, constipation, and more with a high starch whole plant based diet and has had consistently positive results. Dr Caldwell Esselstyn and Dr Dean Ornish have shown that a whole plant based diet has been able to not only halt but reverse coronary artery disease in severely ill patients. Sadly since the 1980's some suggest the meat, dairy, egg, fish, and processed oil industry have weighed in heavily in the published research to promote their agenda handcuffing researchers with funding contracts that pressure them into suppressing data that shows their products in a bad light (see Marion Nestle's work) to the point that as of 2013 almost 92% of the published literature has been literally contaminated with this (profit driven "advertising" ) research making it extremely difficult to discern what is true. This is largely why there is so much controversy around diet and nutrition and why individuals here are so antagonistic to each other. That is why, in order to discern clearly the truth one must know who funded whatever studies they are looking at. More importantly we as individuals need to put aside our need for security and fears of not surviving. Individuals on both sides of the fence have bought into the lies; the animal farmers, meat, dairy, egg, fish, oil eating public on one side and the medical, pharmaceutical, supplement industry on the other and seek the truth because more than our individual health is at stake here, it is the planet itself that hangs in the balance. Blessings.
                  • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                    Removed by moderator.
              • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                Studies clearly indicate that decreased carbohydrates and increased good fats (including saturated fats) has a positive effect on cholesterol and reverses type 2 diabetes. Where is the data that saturated fat increases diabetes? I agree with you on trans fat.
                Hide Replies (12)
                • billybt over 2 years ago
                  Dr. Michael Greger !
                  Hide Replies (4)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    awww yes, classic vegan activist Dr that every vegan cites even though he claims vegan blood cures cancer, milk causes autism, chicken and turkey is listed as a carcinogenic by the WTO, collects money though his "charity" to keep spewing is non peer-reviewed research.
                  • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                    Who is he? Please see https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8jdVsC8-uKER0JnUjlIY2dyUEU/edit from hundreds of doctors in Canada.
                    Hide Replies (2)
                    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                      Hundreds of sellouts with no integrity, wonder if they all know that their name is on that list. Should start calling them to see if they really did agree to be on that paper.
                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                      Unfortunately, Canadian doctors have little or no nutritional education.
                • Mia A over 2 years ago
                  Apparently MDs do say that type 2 diabetes is a result of the interplay between saturated fat and dietary sugar/simple carbs.
                  Hide Replies (2)
                  • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                    It is primarily due to high carbohydrates and in particular fructose stimulating high glucose levels which in turn stimulates insulin production. With high insulin the body goes into fat storage mode with whatever energy is available whether from fat, protein or carbohydrates in excess of the bodies current need, but let us be clear it is triggered by high glucose levels in the blood and high fructose levels in the liver. These come from easily digestible carbohydrates (processed foods), potatoes, rice, sugar, sweetened drinks and fruit juices.
                  • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                    There are essentially 3 types of diabetes: Typ1 (where the pancreas produces no insulin), Type 2 where the pancreas produces excess insulin but the insulin receptors are under or unresponsive to its effects and as Dr Johm Mcdougall suggests Type 1.5 where the pancreas produces inadequate amounts of insulin. In the first case it has been suggested in published studies that the Beta Casein portion in some brands of cows milk, which resembles the same protein in beta cells of the pancreas, are absorbed through the infant gut and is targeted by an antibody immune response that then simultaneously attacks and kills beta cells in the pancreas rendering it nonfunctional. In Type 2 Diabetes, studies by Neal Barnard MD and others suggest that intramyocellular lipids (fat inside cells) from a high fat (any fat) diet render insulin receptor under or non functional thus forcing the pancreas to over produce insulin in the face of a sugar load leading to high blood sugar and insulin levels. In Type 1.5 the insulin receptors are under or non functioning due to intracellular fat and the pancreas is compromised to some degree and the pancreas, in the face of a high carbohydrate load, produces inadequate insulin thus leading to high blood sugar levels but not so high insulin levels (thus one finds that such individuals often are also prescribed insulin in addition to insulin stimulating medications. It appears that in type 1 diabetes patients who consistently adopt a whole plant based diet seem to halt/slow the development of some of the complications of diabetes (i.e. retinopathy, kidney disease, peripheral neuropathy, hypertension, arteriosclerosis). Type 2 diabetic patients who adopt a whole plant based diet seem to completely reverse their insulin resistance, lower their blood sugars and insulin levels and are able to permanently stop many of their insulin stimulating medications (Barnard et. al.). Type 1.5 diabetics who adopt a consistent plant based diet (Mcdougall et al) seem to reduce their need for insulin stimulating medications and in some cases reduce the dosage of insulin they require. I would say, personally, that these are very promising results. Maybe you agree?
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  We don't need studies or research...why do human mothers stop giving milk to human babies? Why do no other species require milk after infancy? It's so common sense. The diary industry is a business and always was....just because we can it doesn't mean we should.
                  Hide Replies (3)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    "We don't need studies or research" well that's a dangerous statement. Actually if you look at history, dairy farming was important for getting us out of the stone age. Cattle, goats, sheep, and pigs all have their origins as farmed animals in the so-called Fertile Crescent, a region covering eastern Turkey, Iraq, and southwestern Iran. This region kick-started the Neolithic Revolution. Dates for the domestication of these animals range from between 13,000 to 10,000 years ago.Genetic studies show that goats and other livestock accompanied the westward spread of agriculture into Europe, helping to revolutionize Stone Age society. While the extent to which farmers themselves migrated west remains a subject of debate, the dramatic impact of dairy farming on Europeans is clearly stamped in their DNA. Prior to the arrival of domestic cattle in Europe, prehistoric populations weren’t able to stomach raw cow milk. But at some point during the spread of farming into southeastern Europe, a mutation occurred for lactose tolerance that increased in frequency through natural selection thanks to the nourishing benefits of milk. Judging from the prevalence of the milk-drinking gene in Europeans today—as high as 90 percent in populations of northern countries such as Sweden—the vast majority are descended from cow herders.https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/development-of-agriculture/
                    Hide Replies (2)
                    • Kieran Dunch over 2 years ago
                      This is true! But I don't believe they were consuming the amount of dairy that we do in our day to day, and I think that's the distinction.The new food guide is asking us to reduce our consumption of meat and dairy, not eliminate it altogether. Combine that with the fact that while it's true that Europeans have a good stomach for it, something like >90% of Asians and >70% of Africans don't have the genes for it, and we're a diverse country. Thanks for the cite.
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for high consumption, just continued consumption and for keeping it in the Guide Lines. However, there are a handful of individuals here that are calling for the abolishment of all animal products (fish, poultry, beef, dairy etc.) based on their beliefs.That's actually fine, what I'm concerned about is the misinformation being spread about some of these industries like it's responsible for 51% of greenhouse gases (widely debunked) milk causes autism (again debunked), milk causes osteoporosis (again a false hypothesis). Yes, there are individuals that have lactose intolerance, but there are lactose free options as well.
            • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
              Vegans make up 1% of the population and computers is all we have at the moment.The animal industry has millions of dollars poured every year into lobbying and advertisement campaigns and check off programs and subsidies and it is the reason why the Food Guide is the way it is (not based on science, but based on industry lobby power)
              Hide Replies (27)
            • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
              Hide Replies (8)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                I don't want them to get sick, again you need medical evidence to make such a claim. Care to share any?
                Hide Replies (7)
                • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
                • nzouri over 2 years ago
                  Numerous people adopted a plant based diet and have noticed benefits right away. For a lot of people it is about telling others how good it feels to eat mostly plants (or all plants).
                  Hide Replies (5)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Yea Scientologists do the same thing, join our beliefs and you'll be so much better.
                    Hide Replies (4)
                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                      Exactly what the dairy industry does: drink 3 glasses of milk a day or you will not get enough calcium. Paying researchers for favorable research conclusions, advertising, school programs, etc. Are they doing this out of the goodness of their heart or is economic interest?
                      Hide Replies (3)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Interesting where does Canadian dairy say "drink 3 glasses of milk a day or you will not get enough calcium"?A food product is vilified now for advertising? If people didn't make wild accusations we wouldn't need valid research to debunk those claims.
                        Hide Replies (2)
                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                          I agree with the need for valid research. Valid research is not paid by the food industry. When a "research" is paid by the food industry is advertising!
                          Hide reply (1)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            So the US National Library of Medicine is a fake corrupt body then is what you just sad...alarming nzouri.
            • Cathy J over 2 years ago
              There is nothing honourable about the way the dairy industry is run and then "vegan agenda" is to heal the sick and ibese bodies of our populations while showing compassion and love for all creatures. There is no industry backing that agenda but a desire for crulety free eating!
              Hide Replies (9)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Subjective.
              • billybt over 2 years ago
                Dead on !
              • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                You have every right to practice whatever you feel is ethical as long as it does not harm others. Others have the same right. It is not up to the government to decide what we should eat based on someones ethics. I agree that animals should be treated as humanely as possible but that doesn't mean I am going to stop eating them. Are you saying there are no obese and sick vegans? If so then I would agree that something non-vegan is causing a problem. If not then there must be something that vegans are doing that causes health problems as well. Wouldn't you agree?
                Hide Replies (6)
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Animals don't want to be eaten, period. They have the zest for life like us humans. They want and should have every right to live out their lives completely. Come on people, we have evolved and there are millions of many elderly people that have sustained from eating animals that live long lives. Why did they make it over 100 years in age without eating any animal products? Few other factors include, they do not smoke, drink and they exercise and have social lives with purpose. We make life so complicated and it's not. Eat plants/nuts, do not smoke, do not drink and exercise. No studies required, just common sense.
                • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                  It is acknowledged that all animals feel pain, are capable of suffering and fear death. That is why we have animal cruelty laws. Eating your cat or dog, is morally no different than eating a cow, pig, chicken or lamb. (By the way, there is no law In Canada making it illegal to consume cat or dog meat). For 2.5 million years, humans fed themselves by gathering plants and hunting animals that lived and bred without our intervention. That is humane. All that changed 10,000 years ago, when we began to devote almost all our time and effort to manipulating the lives of a few animals. The agriculture revolution. History's biggest fraud. In what way is this humane?
                  Hide Replies (4)
                  • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                    Animals have survival instincts. This is different than fearing death. Koreans have been eating dogs for for thousands of years. Eating horse meat is normal in Italy and France. I don't disagree that animals should be slaughtered with as little discomfort to them as reasonable possible. I don't believe that is the topic of discussion though.
                    Hide Replies (3)
                    • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                      Humans are the only animal that can contemplate it's own death, but all animals are hardwired to be afraid of death. It is a survival instinct that all animals share with humans. Canada ships live horses to Japan for slaughter. The US banned the slaughter of horses, so they send their horses to Canada for slaughter. My earlier comment was in regards to "humane slaughter".
                      Hide Replies (2)
                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                        Instincts are not emotions. So the mistake the US has made has resulted in low value animals suffering more abuse.
                        Hide reply (1)
                        • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                          "Low value" is exactly the problem. How do (or would) we know that animals do not have emotions or feel pain in a way other than simple neural reflexes? We have constructed a hierarchy that suits us, assigning more or less value to given species depending on our 'use' for them. Would you say other primates do not have emotions too? For those willing to look, there is evidence of animal intelligence all around. Your normalization of eating dogs or horses by pointing to countries in which it is custom misses the point that we could just as easily extend the compassion that we have for them here in north america (again, by custom) to other species. Just as one example, ravens are able to carry out complex problem solving and use their memories to plan ahead for the future, something most 4 year-old humans are incapable of: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/raven-intelligence-memory-1.4204396
            • Spasic over 2 years ago
              Industry that is based on use and abuse of other s is not honourable. You are in the industry so you should know that cows are pumped with antibiotics and other meds to keep infections down. Dairy is hard to digest, often full of medications and unethical to consume. By product of dairy is veal. How cruel is to steal milk from a calf and then eat that mother's baby. Bottom line, not beneficial for humans.
              Hide reply (1)
            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
              This is the video that inspired me the most.....no research...no studies...just living proof....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa7Ob19d5SE
              Hide Replies (2)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                You call that proof? Okay if that's your basis for conclusive evidence here you go, with your deductive logic you will now eat ice cream everyday and now love milk right? Or does that not fit your vegan agenda? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXyfCGDnuWs&t=494s
                Hide reply (1)
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
            • billybt over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
              Hide Replies (4)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                "Intelligence is far more useful than degrees" lol
                Hide Replies (3)
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Removed by moderator.
            • Kirk over 2 years ago
              You are barking up the wrong tree my friend. Dairy is completely unnecessary and it contributes to obesity and heart disease. Furthermore with the manner in which most domesticated animals are fed and treated on many farms there are other complications. My advice, go and grow something useful like greens, other veg and fruits. We have had enough of the grains, dairy and meat to last us multiple lifetimes. Change is in the wind....
              Hide Replies (3)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Removed by moderator.
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                What peer reviewed sources do you have that proves dairy leads to heart disease and obesity? Has the research been duplicated?
              • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                What kind of dairy are you talking about? Skim milk will certainly contribute more to obesity and heart disease because of the sugar content compared to heavy cream and hard cheese. I eat my fair share of veg but I don't limit myself to just those and have never been healthier since I reduced my carbohydrate intake.
            • Mia A over 2 years ago
              My parents were farmers and I noticed that the farming practices changed over the years in a way that they were no longer wholesome: animals ate artificial food, chickens grew so rapidly that their own weight could not be supported by their legs - a far cry from the former animals that grazed on grass in the sunshine and the chickens that were hatched by the hen. How can the milk and meat be healthy for the human body when the animals/poultry are far removed from nature and are given artificial food, antibiotics, and even hormones? To me, this is very concerning.
              Hide Replies (2)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Hi Mia, listen those are valid concerns, and to be honest I can only speak from the dairy side of things. In dairy our animals are not given any hormones at all, now in the US there is something called bovine growth hormone that is added, but nothing like that in Canada. Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/veterinary-drugs/factsheets-faq/hormonal-growth-promoters.html Now we do give cows grain, this product is perfectly safe and it's meant to act as a supplement for some extra nutrition. I'd say 98% of the cows diet comes from the earth itself, one in the form of grazing in the pasture, we have our animals out from April-till early December in some cases (as long as there is no snow on the ground and the grass is still coming up). Next we cut the grass and produce silage, essentially that's just pickled grass. Finally we produce a lot of hay bales, both in the form of round bales and square bales, and all that is is just dried out grass with lots of healthy variety like clover it it. And of course lots of water.
                Hide reply (1)
                • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                  Ryan, that is commendable and I truly accept that the Canadian dairy industry is head and shoulders above the American dairy industry so I'm glad you are on this side of the border and that we are Canadians. It needs to be acknowledged however that in spite of the fact that Canadian cows are not given hormones they still produce natural estrogens and stimulate IGF-1 that (are necessary for rapid calf growth but) have been putative carcinogens (breast, colon, prostate) in humans. Clearly feeding these to children does not feel right, at least not to me. On another emotional note, how does the idea of making brownies with human breast milk feel to you? Disgusting? Well, how much more disgusting does it feel (and I'm appealing to your human emotional self for this, forget the studies) does it feel to be drinking (in spite of your financial investment in this industry) the milk of another species? Blessings.
            • fififinn over 2 years ago
              I do not agree that the dairy industry is honourable. It is cruel and unnecessary. Humans absolutely DO NOT need to consume the milk meant for another species.
              Hide Replies (2)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Hi Fififinn,I understand your concerns, but dairy farmers here in Canada abide by the strictest of regulations and practices that ensures the best welfare possible. Farms undergo regular inspections, veterinary checks, quality testing etc. The love and care for our animals is the most important thing. Not only is it the right thing to do, but the animals can not by in any sort of stress, otherwise the milk will not pass inspection (fact) and then that farm would quickly go under since there is a lot of overhead.
                Hide reply (1)
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
            • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
              I truly do sympathize with your situation but you know it's not just the dairy industry that needs to be accountable, among other food industries, its also the medical (and I can say that with no shame having retired from that profession years ago when I painfully realized that my training was all disease focused and nutrition was, and still is entirely dismissed as central to preventative health and longevity), pharmaceutical and supplement industries. Sadly, many of us have unwittingly bought into , my self more than most as I too have several (useless in my view) university degrees that feed, a system that destroys human health and the health of the planet only for the sake of profit. If we are to survive as a species it is imperative that we put aside our personal need for security and fears, embrace the truth and evolve to a higher plane of personal responsibility that gives equal respect to the individual and the whole. That way we will not only survive but thrive. Blessings!
            • realoxana over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
            • Awenmann over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
              Hide reply (1)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                I'm a professional researcher and statistician, the debate is on credibility, and validity on health research. I have provided plenty of peer-reviewed studies that proves the benefits of dairy in ones diet. The experience allows me speak on how these animals are treated rather than YouTube, or assumptions.
          • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
            Removed by moderator.
            Hide Replies (3)
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              I own a factory farm, are you sure about that? And what's a factory farm in quantifiable terms? and why are you using hastags in a blog?
              Hide Replies (2)
              • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
                Removed by moderator.
                Hide reply (1)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  Well that's uncalled for and not respectful dialogue.
          • dante over 2 years ago
            I think the same way .
          • Renske over 2 years ago
            Sorry don't think Dairy Farmers are careless, they care a lot for their animals and well being!! They makeSure there is excellent quality milk for all available.
        • kfalckh over 2 years ago
          I drank it for 50 years and changed in a week once I did some research. There are so many other healthy options, cow's milk is completely unnecessary for humans.
          Hide Replies (2)
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            sorry you're missing out then
            Hide reply (1)
            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
              Oh no we are not...the best thing for humans..is simple...it's called water...
        • billybt over 2 years ago
          It's been gradual and that is why heart disease and all other diseases are rampant in Canada..Wake Up...You apparently , like many , still want to Hear good news about your Bad Habits !
          Hide Replies (2)
          • reitsmad over 2 years ago
            What's been gradual is more than 40 years of a high carbohydrate, processed food diet with too much sugar causing an epidemic increase in T2D and metabolic syndrome.
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            Billy, let me get this straight, you're saying heart disease is rampant because of milk?
        • maureen boag over 2 years ago
          I drank milk for over 50 years and quit. It wasn't difficult at all. You get the exact same vitamins, minerals and nutrients from plant based milks.
        • mwenmann over 2 years ago
          I think it is the responsibility of the Government of Canada to present the best information for a healthy diet everyone should be striving to attain. People can take the information or leave it. It's up to the individual how they choose to conduct themselves as far as health is concerned. The burden of responsibility to provide the correct information lies in the hands of the government, the people can choose what they do with that info.
      • Francois over 2 years ago
        Grains should not be discouraged. GMOs full of roundup yes but only 1% of the population has celiac disease and another 1% has gluten sensitivity, the others do not. Check the research. There are many vitamins, minerals and a lot of fiber in whole grains.
        Hide Replies (34)
        • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
          We need balance. Grains can constitute far too much of the modern Western daily diet: toast at breakfast, a sandwich at lunch and pasta for dinner, pastry dessert.Your statistics don't take into account the thousands of adults and children who have symptoms of wheat intolerance and do not realize those symptoms are associated with their high-wheat diets. Even 1% is too high, if your stats were accurate. Food intolerance has grown in correlation with the consumption of GMOs and the increase in the vaccine schedule (e.g., peanut oil is used as adjuvant in vaccines).
          Hide Replies (32)
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            There is nothing wrong with vaccines or GMO's, that's science for you.
            Hide Replies (28)
            • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
              I hope you're being sarcastic.
              Hide Replies (13)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                I hope you are! I'm glad you're anti dairy now, just shows your confirmation bias in your 'Google' research.
                Hide Replies (12)
                • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                  Where are you getting this from? I am not anti-dairy. I eat dairy. What 'Google' research are you referring to?
                  Hide Replies (11)
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Why do eat diary? Cow's milk = cheese and yogurt and suffering....please see this inspirational video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa7Ob19d5SE
                    Hide Replies (3)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Why do eat dairy? Me don't know, me think it good. It doesn't cause suffering, you're just re-posting the same old YouTube clips.
                      Hide Replies (2)
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Removed by moderator.
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Dairy = cow's milkI'm a human
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Why do you eat dairy? Are you a baby cow? a baby goat? You do realize these industries steal the babies from their mother's for human consumption? And do you understand what happens to those babies? Veal or death or another female baby cow taking into the footsteps of their mother. From a former cow milk drinker...I just got it.
                    Hide Replies (6)
                    • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                      You have to draw the line somewhere. We don't eat meat, but we do eat fish. We do our best to make good choices throughout our consumer lifestyle. Dairy is a compromise. There is no way anyone can live in the western hemisphere, be a consumer and not be a part of some human or animal suffering, even vegans (this is a shortcoming of the human condition as things stand. Have you ever googled "products that use animal derivatives"? There are hundreds of them and you use them—many of them—whether you're a burger-munching pie man or a veggie-munching vegan.What I am arguing for is for people to acknowledge the suffering (ryanshaw) and make better choices to encourage change. Eating (a lot) less meat would be a start: Less animals slaughtered means all these industries using material derived from animals will have to look elsewhere for their resources.
                      Hide Replies (4)
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Please read the book: What a fish knows.Fish are amazing...I adopted a Beta Fish from Kijjiji...that little fish taught me how beautiful they are...he was like a dog...that little guy even played ping pong with me....very intelligent and sweet. Fish on our planet...suffer just as much as any creature we subject to human cruelty. I respect fish just like any animal.
                        Hide reply (1)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        I agree, no one advocates for suffering, farmers are always looking at ways to improve the health and care of their animals, example installation of robotic brushes, sand in stalls, foot baths, larger units etc.
                      • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                        There are all kinds of substitutes for products that contain animal by products. Tom's Toothpaste, the majority of flavours of Wrigley Excel gum, etc. Just like you can google products that use animal derivatives, you can google products that don't. The world is changing.
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      You consume dairy, you don't "eat it" since it's not a food item in itself. Actually we don't steal the babies then eat them, but we house them, take care of them and actually provide their mother's milk to them.
            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
              Why do we alter nature? Is it because of climate change? With the billions of factory farmed animals in this world?
              Hide Replies (13)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                The leading cause of climate change is fossil fuels.
                Hide Replies (11)
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
                • billybt over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  That's true...and #2 is animal agriculture.
                  Hide Replies (4)
                • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                  They'll tell you the planet's warming but satellite data says otherwise.
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    there is a website called c02 earth....it just measures carbon emissions...not sure where you get your data...as a teen...I use to have a nice tan....now as an adult, my skin burns.
                • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Removed by moderator.
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Where is your source of billions of factory farmed animals? Let me guess you went around the earth and counted each one?
          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
            People who do not have Celiac Disease and follow a gluten-free diet have more metabolic disease (something the gets blames on gluten) and have more heart disease (again many blame gluten) and they die earlier than people who consume grains ... go figure out who is right.Gluten-free diet is not recommended for people without celiac diseasehttp://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2135
            Hide Replies (2)
            • Marie J over 2 years ago
              The problem is that gluten free isn't necessarily healthy. A cookie is still a cookie whether gluten free or not.
            • Don&Sylvia over 2 years ago
              Wheat has Lectins. Sprouting before making into bread helps reduce Lectins so possibly grains can be a healthy part of a diet. Take a look at the link and read the article and watch the video. Further Roundup is widely used as a desiccant to make harvesting of wheat easier.even for non GMO crops. It is present in the breads and flour we consume. As the products are available today I will be avoiding it. We need to be properly informed and educated so we can make our own choices. I choose to avoid wheat because it contains Lectins and most likely roundup. Roundup affects our gut bacteria. Gut bacteria is likely one of the most important aspects of being healthy. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/05/22/beans-toxic-lectin-rich-foods.asps
        • reitsmad over 2 years ago
          The biggest problem with grains is that they are so over processed (white flour) as to be devoid of nutrients and so rapidly digestible that they spike insulin resulting in fat storage. They best thing to do when eating a hamburger is to throw away the bun. What we need to do is to stop sandwiching healthy food between two pieces of hardened sugar.
      • cbanman over 2 years ago
        Yes, dairy should be removed completely from the recommendations.
        Hide Replies (220)
        • Sunya over 2 years ago
          completely agree. Dairy takes a toll on our environment and our health! We stopped getting colds when we ditched dairy!
          Hide Replies (61)
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            You clearly are drinking the vegan Kool-Aid
            Hide Replies (33)
            • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
              Hide Replies (31)
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                It's delicious and nutritious! you should read about why we started dairy and agriculture, as well as evolution, you may learn something, just try calling it milk too, sounds less agenda based
                Hide Replies (30)
                • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                  "Vegan Kool-Aid" is not agenda-based? Like many, I simply called cow's milk "milk" without questioning anything about it for decades... thanks to tradition and marketing. But traditions and habits change, and we can easily get all of the nutritional value of cow's milk from other sources. Now that's evolution!
                  Hide Replies (14)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    I believe you used " mammary secretions of 2,000lb bovine ungulates" not "milk" my friend. Yes we can diversify the sources of our nutritional requirements, but the premise of the argument you've been making is milk is unnatural, therefore, we ought to ditch it. If you look at the past 1,000 yrs or so, animal agricultural was a primary input into longevity and development, especially in the Nordic countries. Again, there aren't any studies to show the possible benefits of plant-based drinks on diseases like certain types of cancers or conditions, as milk has shown a correlation of prevention. Therefore, it's very premature to conclude that dairy needs to be ditched, I know you can certainly agree more research is needed on these plant-based alternatives, and that's why it would be irresponsible, and definitely ill-informed to replace dairy in Canada's Food Guide.
                    Hide Replies (13)
                    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                      Milk consumption has been tied to breast and prostate cancer risk in those who don't have the cancers yet.Milk consumption has been shown to increase breast and prostate cancer reoccurrence in those who have had it and been treated for it.Study Suggests Full-Fat Dairy Products May Be Linked to Worse Survivalhttp://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/20130327And just recently science finally came up with a method to test human cancer tissues for the presence of Bovine Leukemia Virus and guess what? 60% of the breast cancer biopsies have BLV in them and it is known breast cancer causing virus in cows.Virus in cattle linked to human breast cancerhttp://news.berkeley.edu/2015/09/15/bovine-leukemia-virus-breast-cancer/
                      Hide Replies (12)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Well first off, your link is broken, so it’s a little hard for me to review what you sent, but luckily I know how to find these things. Regarding the first study, it also notes, “There also was no association between the risk of recurrence and the amount of full-fat dairy products eaten.” …interesting.Also with that study you can’t just cherry pick what to post Eugene.. for that particular study the women in the study “had to remember exactly how much and what type of dairy products they ate for the entire previous year. Unless you keep a detailed food diary, this is extremely difficult to do. So, it’s likely that the amount and type of dairy products eaten was misreported.” Second, it’s not clear if the researchers looked at what else the women were eating or whether the women’s weight and exercise habits were considered in the research (from my review they weren’t) Being overweight and a lack of exercise are two factors that can lead to worse breast cancer outcomes and increase the risk of breast cancer recurrence so those factors should have been included. Third, we don’t know the hormone-receptor status of the breast cancers in the study. If a woman was diagnosed with hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer, it’s likely that she would be prescribed hormonal therapy medicine for at least 5 years after surgery to reduce the risk of the cancer coming back. Did some (or many) of the women quit taking hormonal therapy early? If so, this also might affect the results of the study. So, Eugene, it doesn’t prove the first causes the second. Much more research is needed on the potential link between full-fat dairy products and breast cancer.In regard to your Berkeley post, the validity of a case-control study depends on the assumption that the controls arise from the same population as that from which the cases arise. In this study, most case samples came from mastectomies for breast cancer, and most control samples came from reduction mammoplasties, which could represent different underlying populations.Also consider the situ-PCR method (which that study is based on) amplicon generated within the tissue DNA cannot be easily sequenced, as in standard PCR methods. A case-control study is not conclusive in itself, a lot of controls have to be accounted for and since this was not quasi-experimental methodology, also this has not been peer-reviewed as of yet, albeit it certainly is a noteworthy “association”. According to the World Cancer Research Fund, reports and the latest meta-analyses, consumption of milk and dairy products probably protects against colorectal cancer, bladder cancer, gastric cancer, and breast cancer. Dairy intake does not seem to be associated with risk of pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, or lung cancer, whereas the evidence for prostate cancer risk is inconsistent. In women, dairy offers significant and robust health benefits in reducing the risk of the common and serious colorectal cancer and, possibly, also the risk of breast cancer. In men, the benefit of the protective effect of milk and dairy on the common and serious colorectal cancer is judged to outweigh a potentially increased risk of prostate cancer. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/
                        Hide Replies (11)
                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                          Interesting that you point numerous times to this study whose authors are sponsored by the dairy industry while critiquing an article who points to a opposite direction. We have quite a bit of independent evidence that proves dairy is linked to numerous health issues: cancer, acne, kidney diseases, etc. Most official recommendations are now for fat-free or reduced fat dairy products in recognition that there is a link. The government must do what is best for all people's health and recommend to avoid or eliminate dairy products. There are many vegetarian sources of calcium that people can consume without worrying about saturated fat or estrogen that is present in milk.
                          Hide Replies (10)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            You're right I critiqued the research according to the limitations of the study, data collection methods, sample size etc. You're just pointing to the sponsors which, unfortunately, doesn't suffice as justification to dismiss the meta-analysis. Health Canada must take the proven nutritional benefits of dairy and keep them in the guidelines. Again, there is no sufficient causation, let alone correlation to claim milk consumption leads to cancer, acne, kidney disease etc.
                            Hide Replies (8)
                            • nzouri over 2 years ago
                              Sponsors play a very important role in any study, especially for researchers who may expect future payments. The studies in favor of dairy that you posted look like they are coming from an pre-approved list from Dairy Farmers of Canada. Here are some independent studies: Milk consumption is a risk factor for breast cancer: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570023209000671 and ovarian cancer: http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/9/1/95.short and
                              Hide Replies (7)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                The last study is almost 2 decades old and it concludes "We conclude that, whereas adult consumption of lactose carries no clear risk for the disease, certain genetic or biochemical features of galactose metabolism may influence disease risk for particular types of ovarian cancer"
                                Hide Replies (6)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  That my friend does not mean consumption of dairy increases your risk of ovarian cancer. When I get a chance I'll look at the other study.
                                • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                  Galactose is metabolized from the milk sugar. If galactoze metabolism can influence the risk for some types of ovarian cancer it means milk may cause cancer.
                                  Hide Replies (3)
                                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                    Look what I found....this is why it's important to keep up-to-date with the research! In 2000 an update was published by Daniel W. Cramer, E. Robert Greenberg, Linda Titus-Ernstoff, Rebecca F. Liberman, William R. Welch, Evelyn Li and Won G. Ng, "In this study, we found no association between ovarian cancer risk and the estimated adult consumption of various types of dairy products or total lactose. These findings are inconsistent with our previous report (1999) of a link between ovarian cancer and increased consumption of dairy sugar (6) ." http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/9/1/95. One possible explanation for the discrepancy between the two studies may involve differences in control selection between the two studies.
                                    Hide Replies (2)
                                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                      Look what I found in the Footnote: "The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked advertisement in accordance with 18 U.S.C. Section 1734 solely to indicate this fact."
                                    • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                      You found a 22 year old study with a footnote that said it is "advertising". Thank you!
                                • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                  60% of breast cancer biopsies have detectable Bovine Leukemia Virus (after some time the virus disintegrates) http://news.berkeley.edu/2015/09/15/bovine-leukemia-virus-breast-cancer/
                          • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                            Nothing wrong with saturated fat. The problem is sugar and refined carbs. Read "Get Your Fats Straight" by Sarah Pope.
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  It's called cow's milk from a cow...and it was a fluke. Why do you process it then and fortify it? Why not drink it raw like a human's mother breast milk? I hope some of my previous comments help you from other people born in the industry that realize it's just wrong. Have cow pets and just love them. Find a different lively hood. Many other's have.We need evolution again...we are running out of time....BC fires left their cattle to fend for themselves in the fires.....By moonlight, Rob Donaldson and his neighbours ran 1,000 cows down the alleyways of a burning barn. They parked a tractor with shining headlights to help them see. They first loaded the calves into a cattle-hauling truck, then the adults in groups of 40, in 40 degree heat. The dairy cows had ballooning udders. Two suffered severe burns. Three family favourites wandered back into the barn and died, while the multi-million dollar facility burned to the ground. Donaldson himself rushed into the smoke to herd the survivors to safety.“He was maybe too heroic,” says Quinn Gavaga, the veterinarian who helped evacuate the barn near Ashcroft, B.C., a scramble so hectic that his cell phone got trampled. “There’ll be more sick people that helped the cattle than there are sick cattle.” Home to about 62,000 people, the Cariboo region of B.C. also has more than 20,000 head of cattle, which are an economic base for some communities (Ashcroft lies just south of the Cariboo). Amid wildfires, farmers panic to evacuate their animals, veterinarians treat burns and neighbours endure lung injuries for the sake of saving each other’s stock. Between animals, machinery and flammable crops, the stakes for farmers are high. The world needs to adopt to a plant based diet to avoid the above, can't you see that?
                  Hide Replies (12)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Removed by moderator.
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    BC fires= proof dairy needs to be ditched. Interesting.
                    Hide Replies (10)
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Hide Replies (9)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Scientific consensus claims animal agriculture contributes about 15% of greenhouse gases (source: Union of Concerned Scientists), not "all animal agriculture causes global warming", I still can't understand what you are trying to say there? Are you saying animal agriculture contributes a 100% to global warming?
                        Hide Replies (8)
                        • billybt over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                        • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                          The statement was that all animal agriculture causes (i.e. contributes to) global warming, not that animal agriculture is responsible for 100% of warming. And the link that ckadlec shared mentions your same 14.5% figure from the FAO, which is absolutely massive... so yay we agree. And for what it's worth, so do at least some of the folks at the Union of Concerned Scientists you cite: "It will be hard to meet the 2-degree goal no matter what; it will be impossible if livestock pollution isn't part of the mix" as per report here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/29/opinions/sutter-beef-suv-cliamte-two-degrees/index.html
                          Hide Replies (6)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            I don't deny that animal agriculture has an impact on global warming, I don't agree that it's 51% as Cowspiracy claims with their faulty analysis (inefficient statistics). But it's unfair for vegans to solely attack animal agriculture but ignore the impact other types of agriculture is taking on the planet as well.https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2015/oct/21/almond-milk-quite-good-for-you-very-bad-for-the-planet
                            Hide Replies (5)
                            • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                              You don't have to be vegan to care about the environmental impact of animal husbandry (but it helps; taste buds have a strong bias over judgement). :D You don't have to believe the 51% of GHG attributed to animal agriculture as published in the prestigious Worldwatch Institute report, or value the credentials of its World Bank writers, Jeff Anhang and the late Robert Goodland (I labour on the details in case you thought the figure originated with the documentary itself). They claimed that it was "at least 51%" to illustrate that the well-intentioned FAO Livestock's Long Shadow Report (18% was shocking enough) uses a particular set of accounting rules and is fallible in overlooking sources of agricultural emissions. If you look at the attention exerted by the self-described environmental community given to animal agriculture you'll discover it to be much less than 51%, 18% or 14.5% of the conversation. Is it fair for vegans to attack animal agriculture solely for it's contribution to climate change? It depends if you can recognize an environmental villain when you see it. Climate Change ASIDE, animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation/land use change, loss of biodiversity, freshwater use, billions of tons of untreated urine and feces in our rivers, ocean dead zones and fertilizer pollution (feedcrops are more responsible for rampant agrochemical use far more than vegetables for human consumption). FYI: Villain = an industry that recognizes its impact and responds by suppressing profit-dampening regulations. #ExxonKnew #MonsantoKnows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries#/media/File:Planetary_boundaries_of_agriculture_and_nutrition.png
                              Hide Replies (3)
                              • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                                Awesome post.
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                All your citations have been widely debunked Ray. It's propaganda and misinterpretation, and using inefficient statistics. Read some credible sources and less YouTube/Netflix. Did you think Steven was innocent after watching Making a Murderer too? http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/science-and-innovation/agricultural-practices/agriculture-and-climate/greenhouse-gases/?id=1329321969842
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                                  Did you think I meant the World Bank YouTube channel? The Worldwatch Institute is one of the top think tanks in Washington. "Debunked" is the language of the YouTube researcher. (By the way, you haven't disclaimed any biases yourself. Any milk money paying the bills?) You gotta be more specific. Planetary boundaries have been debunked? James Hansen, the "Grandfather of Climate Change" and Paul Crutzen, who coined the term "Anthropocene" are among the 27 co-authors. Agriculture as the leading cause of deforestation, loss of biodiversity, fresh water use...this has been "widely debunked?" How about fertilizer pollution, can that be traced to agriculture? There's a lot of untreated manure seeping into rivers...and sometimes into Internet discussion forums.I think you might be waggling in your last link the 10% of Canada's greenhouse gases attributed to livestock. It also states that the figure doesn't include fossil fuels or the production of fertilizer. First, this would be calculated using the conservative 100 year horizon of atmospheric decay, which is simply a habit because Carbon Dioxide has a half-life of 50 years in the atmosphere. The next sentence describes the huge amounts of methane from animals; its half-life of 8 years would justify using a 20 year horizon of calculation, driving this percentage way up. Second, using local (Canadian) statistics is disingenuous -- Canada shares the atmosphere with the rest of the world, and is among the developed nations that has been putting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. We are co-creators to the climate crisis and are still among the highest consumers of cows; cheating in the accounting is very dirty pool.Weren't we talking about how milk has to nutritionally justify it's water, carbon and compassion footprint (and government subsidies)? Removing the food group is just the beginning of the dismantling of Big Dairy. (How's that for vegan bias?!)
                            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                              What people in the Western world don't see...people's own animal agriculture is dying due to lack of water...it's called global warming..not Canada warming...or US warming...if people just woke up and realized our whole planet is in big trouble...we are all connected. We need to wake up everybody...it's not just animal agriculture...we use a manual lawn mower whereas everyone is using a gas mower...David Suzuki said it finally...we've passed the tipping points...and he said...humans won't fix it..his only hope...nature might...
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  So why do human moms not continue nourishing their own HUMAN babies until teenage hood? It's not human milk, it's called COW'S milk.
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Teenage hood? What's that?
            • ckadlec over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
          • ckadlec over 2 years ago
            So true...and I'm an adult...I use to get acne on my back..not a lot but it bothered me..as soon as I ditched the dairy, my back was like a baby's bum : ) Oh and I use to get a monster of a pimple on my face before my periods...those too disappeared as soon as all cow's milk disappeared from my diet.We have to stop calling it diary too, and say what it really is...cow's milk.
            Hide Replies (17)
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              So dairy is 100% linked to acne is what you're saying? I've always drank milk and never had any acne issues, there that anecdote cancels that anecdote
              Hide Replies (9)
              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                For me personally yes. For me it was a direct correlation, I ditched the cow's milk, the acne disappeared for good and also the same thing happened to my husband. That is why I used the word "I".
                Hide Replies (8)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  "Direct correlation" okay you know what, this is too funny now, you don't even know the difference between causation and correlation and the fact you just claimed milk causes acne with a personal anecdote is laughable.
                  Hide Replies (7)
                  • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                    How about "case study" versus "anecdote"? It appears ckadlec at least made a change of some sort and observed the results, raising one plausible hypothesis that some component of dairy was involved in causing or exacerbating their condition. What you're reporting for your case study involves no change and a virtually unlimited universe of hypotheses for why you don't have acne. Perhaps your genes predispose you to not getting acne, no matter what environmental or bacteriological irritants you experience.
                    Hide Replies (5)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Perhaps it's incorrect to assume that the elimination of dairy (if that is so the case, given the other posts I'm very skeptical) caused or was even a factor in her extinguishing of acne. My point is her anecdote is not proof that diary causes acne or is even correlated in any way, there are many factors ( as she asserts its a "direct correlation") I have yet to see the regression analysis data to substantiate that claim, I'm guessing the R=.90 by the sounds of it? This is why science is important. It's just dangerous to make these assumptions based off personal anecdotes.
                      Hide Replies (4)
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Are you kidding me? I'm been on this Earth for a long time...I know my own body..as soon as I ditched Cow's milk from my diet...all acne disappeared. And NEVER has it returned. Nor my husband's pimply behind. He was amazed actually...as soon as he ditched COW's milk/diary...his behind is clear of pimples. And a friend of mind..who has severe arthritis...she is amazed at her own results. I don't need studies..this is personal. 3/3 people notice a huge positive result without cow's milk in their diet.
                        Hide Replies (3)
                        • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                        • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                          Same story for hubby and me (except the pimply behind). :)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Wow who needs science, yup you've convinced me to go vegan now based off subjective opinion and the gross pimple anecdote lol
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Laughable? I never had a pimple again on my human body again after ditching dairy or my husband. We stopped dairy...and all our PIMPLES disappeared? it is NOT direct correlation. Not to mention we feel better. And we feel amazing...all of our joints said thank-you...thank-you for getting rid of whatever...but we are Back! We feel just better after ditching the cow's milk or any animal milk. Again, this is us personally. We are not speaking for the whole world. But we do promote what happened to us to the world.
            • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
              I had a very similar experience with spots on my chin, may hubby the same. We both ditched milk (not cheese). Our skin cleared up almost immediately and has never been a problem since. Definitely a lactose issue.
              Hide Replies (5)
              • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                *my hubby.
              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                Subjective and anecdotal. I've drank milk all my life and never had an issue with acne, does that count?
                Hide Replies (3)
                • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                  Perhaps you don't have a lactose intolerance. Many people do.
                  Hide Replies (2)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    Alot of people are allergic to peanut butter, we should probably ban that too.
                    Hide reply (1)
                    • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                      Nobody said anything about banning dairy. This thread is about recommendations.
          • Mia A over 2 years ago
            3/4 people in my family developed an intolerance to dairy....
            Hide Replies (8)
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              I'm sorry to hear that, there are lactose free options such as Natrel that may be an option :) http://www.natrel.ca/en
              Hide Replies (7)
              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                why should there be lactose intolerance options if it's soooooooo natural? to drink milk from a mammal..how many lbs bigger than a human?
                Hide Replies (6)
                • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                  Why ban something for everyone if a small population has a problem with it. The small population will just have to stop.
                  Hide Replies (3)
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    small population? how about half the world's population.
                    Hide Replies (2)
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      Ok, half the world which I doubt very much but I would like to see that survey. Why should anyone bow down to someone else's ethics if they are not doing them harm. All your talk about what causes global warming is conjecture. There have been dozens of other global warming patterns in the past so how do you explain them? I respect your personal experience with dairy but that doesn't mean everyone has the same experience and should stop using dairy. It's really none of your business except what you choose to do.
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                        "An estimated 65% of human adults (and most adult mammals) downregulate the production of intestinal lactase after weaning." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2834688/What's interesting is that this article doesn't regard the situation as a matter of "lactose intolerance" but of "lactase persistence" -- in other words, it's surprising to these researchers that the 35% of the world's adults still produce lactase (a baby enzyme) and can still digest milk (a baby food) at all. I'd even liken it to building up a tolerance to alcohol -- I haven't drunk alcohol regularly since college and now I can get tipsy on a pint; I wasn't lactose intolerant before going vegan, but after not eating cheese for two months I ate cheese and felt ill. ======================================================================="...what causes global warming is conjecture. There have been dozens of other global warming patterns in the past..." Climate change denial does not increase your forum cred! Every country's academy of science confirms anthropogenic climate change. http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  Cows also drink water, we should probably stop that to eh?
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                    Yes, for the preservation of fresh water, we should stop cows.
        • MFSCheri over 2 years ago
          My husband and I are vegan but only after going on a journey of farming animals. My husband, a third generation dairy farmer, me a graphic artist who started dairy goat farming. As many have said who visit us and many folks have written, bovine milk is for calves, caprine milk is for kids and on and on until those animals, including breast fed humans teach the age of eating appropriate foods for that species. We humans, young and old are not meant to drink milk! Because my husband and I both have been a part of the 'industry' we understand the farmers are concerned about their livelihood. They have the land and equipment and with a little help could easily begin growing crops for humans rather than crops for livestock.
        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
          No it shouldn't. Dairy has a lot of nutritional benefits
          Hide Replies (152)
          • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
            All of which can be obtained just as readily from plant-based sources. Drinking cow's milk is absolutely not necessary or remotely natural. We've been doing it for a while, and it's become a modern 'tradition' thanks to marketing, but it's absolutely not necessary.
            Hide Replies (101)
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              Oh the "it's not natural vegan argument", well humans flying isn't natural, cooking with fire isn't natural, we should probably stop those too eh? Cow's milk and plant-based drinks are not nutritionally comparable foods. As only a few studies have investigated the health effects of replacing cow's milk with plant-based drinks and none have focused on commercially available drinks or on disease endpoints, the effect of this replacement can only be speculated on. There have, however, been individual cases reporting illness in children consuming low-protein plant-based drinks, but an evidence-based final assessment of the health value of plant-based drinks compared to cow's milk must await more studies in humans. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/Also this study is interesting as well.http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/milk-children-height-1.4149832
              Hide Replies (100)
              • isa19961 over 2 years ago
                There are some good nutrients in cow's milk, that is true. But there are other ways of consuming those nutrients than drinking milk that is destined for a calf. The American Dietetic Association approve of a plant based diet and this is a part of their statement: "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, andmay provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." ( https://www.andeal.org/vault/2440/web/JADA_VEG.pdf ) I think it is about time that the government of Canada presents a food guide that is based on facts instead of being pushed and pulled by corporations like the meat and dairy industry.
                Hide Replies (32)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  There aren’t other proven ways to get those nutrients in those combinations, that’s the thing. Now a lot of plant based “milks” have a lot of synthetic filler, and can you tell me how many almonds are in almond milk? I certainly can’t, and those companies certainly can’t, so there needs to be more studies to concur that the nutrients in it’s quantifiable ratios with the sources of Protein, Vitamin B12 and Phosphorus, Vitamin D, Riboflavin and Calcium can be replaced with plant-based drinks, don’t take my word for it but please review the US National Library of Medicine source cited above. There is no one size fits all when it comes to health and diet, so pushing a strictly vegan/vegetarian diet could possibly be harmful because of the possible nutritional deficiencies at play. Now should people just consume meat and dairy? Absolutely not, there is a scientific consensus that a balanced diet that includes animal and non-animal products is optimal and, therefore, our Food Guide (as before) needs to take this into account.
                  Hide Replies (29)
                  • Francois over 2 years ago
                    Actually, in the words of the director of cardiovascular epidemiology at Harvard University said:``We can't tell people to stop eating all meat and all dairy to become vegetarians. If we were truly basing this only on science we would, but it is a bit extreme.`` Yes, the truth can seem extreme but it doesn't change the facts.
                    Hide Replies (12)
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      Harvard seldom works on facts but it does work on all those sponsorship dollars from big food and pharma!
                    • Mia A over 2 years ago
                      But Harvard's medical staffs' job is to say the truth
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                        I wish that were the case but Harvard is sponsored by big food and big pharma.
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      I see this quote on a lot of vegan blogs, but can you provide the direct source?
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Actually I want to say one thing...it feels so good to be human and not take pain or suffering from another animal anymore..that is it...no studies..no research....we have evolved now AGAIN....why hurt other beings in the process? We have synthetic fur...no need to kill for fur clothing but we still do...why can't we take evolution to another world? We know so much now...why don't we just learn that animals are not needed in our equation?
                      Hide Replies (7)
                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                        Why don't we leave that for when the government decides to make guidelines on how to treat animals. It has nothing to do with diet.
                        Hide Replies (5)
                        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                          Why not lead by example...are you just a follower in life?
                          Hide Replies (4)
                          • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                            Do what makes your heart feel better and let others do the same. This is called peace. Just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean that if others feel differently it is wrong. I personally don't have a problem putting a bolt through the brain of a cow and then eating its flesh. If you don't feel that way then I can respect that.
                            Hide Replies (3)
                            • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                              Could you put a bolt through the brain of a cat or dog and then eat them? Morally there is no difference. All animals, cats, dogs, goats, cows, lambs, pigs, etc., feel pain, are capable of suffering and fear death.
                              Hide Replies (2)
                              • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                I haven't tried dog or cat but the Koreans seem to like it. I mentioned that animals do not understand the concept of death but all animals have survival instincts which is a different thing. I don't understand why you think it is immoral to eat an animal but I respect your views.
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                                  Michael Vick was responsible for the pain, suffering and death of many dogs, simply for entertainment, for pleasure. It has been scientifically and medically proven, that people who do not eat animal products are just as healthy, and sometimes healthier, than those who do. This proves the consumption of animal products is just for pleasure. So morally that is no different than a Michael Vick.
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        Why try to force your beliefs on others through propaganda? For those that wish to consume animal products they have a right to do so.
                  • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                    Vegans have the same deficiencies as meat eaters: Calcium, Iodine, B12, but meat eaters on top of those deficiencies are low in: Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Folate, Fiber, Magnesium https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVJCHVEatqY
                    Hide Replies (12)
                    • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                      Sorry. You are wrong there. I have been vegan for over 5 years. I have no deficiencies at all. I don't take B12, no vitamins, no supplements. I just eat a huge variety of fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts and seeds.
                      Hide Replies (6)
                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                        You must be getting B12 from something then.
                        Hide Replies (5)
                        • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                          From all the above. Not from animal products
                          Hide Replies (3)
                          • Skyla over 2 years ago
                            You can not get B12 from any of those things. The only way you can get B12 as a vegan is from supplements or foods which are fortified, including some cereals and soy products.I tried to include the link for the Vegan Society on sources of B12, but for some reason it was marked as spam. Just google What Every Vegan Should Know about B12.
                            Hide Replies (2)
                            • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                              Well you better call my doctor and ask him why my B12 is perfect. I do eat tofu as well, but not every day and very little compared to other foods. I have soy milk in my tea & coffee.
                            • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                              I have noticed soy as an ingredient in some breads I buy.
                        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                          Vitamin B12 comes from bacteria, not animals. An adequate source of Vit B12 is Nori Seaweed. Vitamin B 12 supplements , from bacteria are commonly available as well. We don't need an animal industry to produce Vit B 12.
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      Meat eaters as omnivores also eat plants. The Inuit eating their traditional diet suffer no ill effects.
                      Hide Replies (4)
                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                        Their life expectancy is 10 years less than average Canadians. They seem to suffer some ill effects.
                        Hide Replies (3)
                        • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                          Not a dietary apparently unless you count drugs and alcoholism.
                          Hide Replies (2)
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Removed by moderator.
                    Hide Replies (2)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      I know it's right, based off my years of experience in dairy. I understand why people view it the way they do, but unless you've experienced dairy farming yourself it's not fair to demonize an industry/people/religion/anything without first hand experience. That is what I bring to the conversation, it's what I know, and it's what I believe.
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        It's what you were born in.....
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  I disagree...humans are not cows. Period. My mother had the breast milk for me while in infancy. Don't be fooled.
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                    I don't understand the premise of your post, is it that humans are not cows, or that you want people to know you were breast fed?
              • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                Ok how about instead of my saying it's not 'natural', I just say it's bizarre? Just because we innovated the capability of domesticating cows and drinking their milk doesn't mean we need to (while avoiding the even bigger question of whether or not we *should*). The St. Michael's study is interesting indeed, but far from conclusive as it was also not set up to specifically compare cow's milk versus non-cow milks (which included goat's milk). There was a correlation with height that was found, but no indication of whether or how individual's nutritional needs were met or not. Given that drinking a glass of "milk" is a rather arbitrary (no matter how traditional) way of getting nutrients, one would think that ditching cow's milk and getting your nutrients from other sources including solid foods would be considered a valid option. If cow's milk is the 'norm', any simple deviation from the norm does not necessarily mean "unhealthy". I don't know if this is necessarily the case, but if cow's milk is optimally designed to help baby cows grow from 65 to 2000 pounds, perhaps it's not so much that non-cow's milk stunts growth, but that cow's milk is promoting otherwise abnormal growth in humans? Just because we CAN and because we HAVE been drinking cow's milk doesn't mean we NEED to or SHOULD continue to.
                Hide Replies (33)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  Okay call it bizarre if you wish, that’s subjective, I think harvesting almonds for “milk” is bizarre but that’s subjective as well. Okay, if you don’t think we need to for moral reasons, whatever that is, let’s look at the economic benefits of the industry in the range of a billion annually, not to mention the indirect and induced benefits to the Canadian economy, certainly a great thing. Now I know your quoting Cowspiracy, we won’t get into the ridiculously flawed statistics he used (ignored statistical efficiencies), that argument it’s baby cow growth fluid is subjective based off a vegans’ take on the manner. There are a lot of opinions Klaper shares that makes me scratch my head as to why there needs to be an absolute abolishment of dairy which is what I’m arguing against. https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-doctors-advice-on-cow-milk.t7899/People can choose what they consume, but to advocate that dairy be eliminated in the Food Guide based off philosophical or moral perspective isn’t a convincing argument since dairy has been proven to have a lot of nutritional benefits that ought to be shared.
                  Hide Replies (24)
                  • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                    Fair enough - I wouldn't expect the food guide to ditch cow's milk entirely, as I and others may wish or hope. I just think it's also fair to say that despite the nutritional value of cow's milk, it is far from a necessary component of the human diet. There are alternative ways of getting that nutrition, just as drinking cow's milk itself was an alternative from before it was the accepted, promoted, marketed mainstream product that it now is. The dairy industry's size and place in the economy is indeed large, and certainly plays a role in the reluctance and resistance of some to exploring alternatives. A good parallel here would be the fossil fuel industry versus renewable energy. A sudden switch from all fossil fuels to all renewables is extremely unlikely and would pose systemic shocks... however a transition is well and truly underway, and tipping points will be reached where the large-scale infrastructure required to replace the status quo will eventually be in place. Even after that transition, some fossil fuel use will be 'necessary', but it will be increasingly marginal. This is the system change with dairy that vegans see and are trying to influence by showing alternatives are possible and healthy. Ultimately, touting the economic or nutritional benefits does not give one a free pass to abdicate moral responsibility... slaves provided a great boost to the world economy, dog meat is a great source of protein. At some point, it seems fair to ask what we're doing at a systemic level and why.
                    Hide Replies (2)
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      Actually all humans need is water.
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        And food, and sleep.
                  • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                    #1 Top allergy in kids is Milk#2 We can't feed kids until 2-3 years of age cow milk because it causes anemia from intestinal bleeding (cow proteins and sugars are incompatible with human gut)#3 Also 75% of world adults are lactose intolerant (some populations have 90-100% intolerance.#4 Animal Agriculture is high wasteful of resources and damaging to the environment. I think that is enough for us to start weaning off baby cow food.
                    Hide Replies (17)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      There are lactose free options, you can't feed kids much of anything at 2 yrs of age, where are your sources? What environmental stats are you referring to, please don't say Cowspiracy, those statistics have been widely discredited from the Union of Concerned Scientists.
                      Hide Replies (16)
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Wait if cow's milk was natural for human consumption..why do we need lactose free options in the first place?
                        Hide Replies (15)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          It's simple, some people can't tolerate it, some people can't tolerate peanut butter, If fruits and vegetables were natural why is there Oral allergy syndrome? Do you see the fallacies in your logic?
                          Hide Replies (14)
                          • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                            The history of dairy that you copied and pasted in one of your 203 earlier posts indicated that dairy was not tolerated among Europeans until a genetic mutation introduced lactose tolerance. This tolerance does little to refute the idea that it's not typical or normal to drink the milk of another mammal. Just because we did, doesn't explain why we did or mean that we must, going forward. If you welcome the consumption of lactose-free options, why not welcome dairy-free options? They are myriad and they are delicious and nutritious. Whether or not it's 'tolerated' by our some of our guts or not, provides beneficial nutrients or not, there's no escaping that anyone/any creature drinking milk from another species' mother is odd, anomalous, atypical, outlier type behaviour. Marketing made the industry what it is.
                            Hide Replies (13)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              Dairy free options have yet to prove their effects on illness and disease, please read my earlier comments since you like to quantify them in each reply. How many almonds in a carton of almond milk? Sorry that's subjective, some may think using honey is odd, some may say us flying is odd. Using products outside an "original design" is part of adapting and evolving my friend.
                              Hide Replies (12)
                              • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                                Again, the 1:1 glass of milk vs glass of something is a false dichotomy. I agree it would be great if there were more standardization of the plant-based beverages, but the point being made is that a plant-based diet (not an arbitrary 'glassful' of a given beverage) can certainly provide enough nutritional value that we don't *need* to turn to cow's milk to survive or be healthy. Plant-based might be viewed as the 'alternative' now, but diary is far from necessary, despite the billions spent on convincing us otherwise. And are you saying once we've adapted to 'tolerate' milk, we must therefore keep drinking it because that's evolution, baby? We have more technology (and awareness of environmental impacts, and hopefully compassion) now than we did 10,000 years ago or whenever you point to the sacred 'aha' moment we 'evolved' to started milking cows for our own benefit. We can evolve our way beyond this stage... I'm looking forward and yes, I embrace change.
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  The premise of the argument is dairy is only for baby calves, it's not natural etc. Many of your arguments in the above statement contradict that so thank you for helping me make my point.
                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                I do not know how many almonds are in a glass of almond milk but I know that a glass of almond milk does not have any cholesterol, saturated fat, estrogen, bovine growth hormone, pus, antibiotics, pesticide, etc. So, I am better off without dairy.
                                Hide Replies (9)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  So you're saying there are pesticides and bovine growth hormone etc in our Canadian milk?
                                  Hide Replies (8)
                                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                    I know that I am healthier now than I ever been on dairy.
                                    Hide Replies (7)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      That wasn't the question, are you saying Canadian dairy has pesticides and bovine growth hormone in it?
                                      Hide Replies (6)
                                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                        Absolutely. Not that it matter that much because even when I was consuming organic dairy I was not as healthy as I am now.
                                        Hide Replies (5)
                                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                          Actually that's quite an ill-informed accusation, there are no pesticides and bovine growth hormone in Canadian dairy, seriously visit a farm or do some actual research. https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/veterinary-drugs/factsheets-faq/hormonal-growth-promoters.html
                                          Hide Replies (4)
                                          • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                            I am healthier without dairy. I feel better and my medical test are showing that I am better. Its not worth my time finding out what dairy component was not good for my health. I am better of without dairy.
                                            Hide reply (1)
                                            • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                              That's a personal perspective and not one we all share. Some will say they feel better eating dairy. I'm sure you don't think it would be fair to then tell you to eat dairy.
                                          • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                            You posted a link about hormonal drugs. That is irrelevant because milk is in itself a cocktail of natural occurring bovine hormone. Yikes.
                                            Hide reply (1)
                                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                              I just debunked your growth hormone claim and now you have nothing to say, so sad. Read it again (not the URL) here I'll help you:Why is rBST not approved for use in Canada?rBST was reviewed by Health Canada in the 1990's. Although it was determined that it did not pose a health risk to humans, there were animal health concerns, and therefore it was never approved for sale in Canada.What do you say now???
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Please read this from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicinehttp://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-productsAlmonds don't raise baby almonds and bellow and cry for their baby calves that have been taken away from them. Big difference.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Humans are not calves. Period.
                    Hide reply (1)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Humans are not bees.
                • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                  Everyone here needs to read Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. How we are a relatively weak and insignificant species who have come to think of ourselves as gods. We feel it is our right to use, abuse, exploit, torture and kill any other animal species on this earth. We are single handedly destroying this planet.
                  Hide Replies (7)
                  • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                    Excellent book - just making my way through his new one "Homo Deus" now, and it spends a fair amount of time talking about our 'relationship' with animals too.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    I agree...humans are weak by nature..and love to exploit and are evil...humans compassionate??? no...we are the most destructive species ever born on this planet. How dare we steal milk from another animal species? How normal is that?
                    Hide Replies (5)
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      We were made to have dominion over the beasts - Genesis 1:26. How can it be evil if this is what God commanded? This is not about compassion. It's what we are meant to do. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with eating animals or drinking their milk or blood for that matter as African tribes have done. This was an excellent way for them to get the nutrients they needed.
                      Hide Replies (2)
                      • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                        The bible was written in old Arabic, which was extremely difficult to translate. Much was lost in translation. There are numerous places where the bible contradicts itself and that was most likely due to translation. This book & verse you are referring to, is one of them.
                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                        Bible was also used to justify slavery.
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      How normal is it to cook with fire? For humans to fly? To reach the deepest deaths of the ocean? The "it's not natural" is filled with fallacies.
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                        To use one's brain, to think, to dream, to create is part of what it means to be human. Even the caveman was not a caveman until he figured out it was better to go into a cave than get rained on. He harnessed fire and bettered himself. This is natural. Do you live without modern conveniences like electricity, heating of some kind and transportation. That you are on communicating now is a fallacy that you are buying into. No?
              • Francois over 2 years ago
                The children height come from the growth hormones. The other hormones increase lethal prostate cancer by 81%, breast cancer by over 37% and ovarian by around 70%. Enjoy?
                Hide Replies (25)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  Wow really doubling down, please read some scientific studies, are you saying bovine growth hormone is added, and is active in humans? US Library of Medicine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/ Please don't come back with a vegan link please!
                  Hide Replies (23)
                  • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                    Cow milk comes packed with hormones, don't need to add any, it is already a soup of pus, blood, pesticides, estrogens and other hormones. IGF-1 is a hormone in milk used to naturally grow calfs into cows, it helps children grow 1cm on average but at the risk of breast cancer, prostate cancer and other hormone dependant cancers tied to animal food consumption.Give up dairy products to beat cancer’http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/10868428/Give-up-dairy-products-to-beat-cancer.html
                    Hide Replies (17)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Care to verify "it is already a soup of pus, blood, pesticides, estrogens and other hormones" because I know milk is tested regularly for this, sorry another vegan activist claim. Milk is tested regularly, and want to know something better than speculation? Actual records to ensure milk isn't a soup of all the things you claim. http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/dairy-products/manuals-inspection-procedures/sampling-and-testing/eng/1379686932447/1379687081819You're really grasping at straws here.
                      Hide Replies (16)
                      • GoodFoodHeals over 2 years ago
                        I know firsthand people who worked for the (then called in the UK) Milk Marketing Board data centre and no one who was in the department that tested the samples from all the dairies were milk drinkers. This is because of the "soup of pus, blood, pesticides, estrogens and other hormones" in the milk they saw on a daily basis. You're wrong, ryanshaw.
                        Hide Replies (4)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Actually I'm right, I have documentation on my side, and try sticking to a Canadian context, please read the regulations, this isn't the UK my friend. http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dr-rl&s2=canada
                          Hide Replies (3)
                          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                            from your own link "Somatic cells Cow's milk: maximum 400,000 somatic cells per ml. Goat's milk: maximum 1,500,000 somatic cells per ml." = pus
                            Hide reply (1)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              so how much do you think is in the average glass of milk?
                          • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                            UK or Canada or worldwide, we don't need cow's milk, it's called evolution, we've evolved and discovered other wonderful non-dairy alternatives that does not require taking a baby calf from their mother.
                      • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                        Care to verify what SCC (Somatic Cell Count) is and see how much each country allows in their milk production. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_cell_count it looks like about ONE dropper of pus in a glass of milk .... mmm mm m.Yes the milk is tested to make sure it does not exceed that amount, but anything below is perfectly fine.
                        Hide Replies (8)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Well wikipedia is a great source (always recommended for all university papers) but more often than not you can't find any trace, I like you're fear mongering tactic, but you can't pick and choose about elements in food, especially if you consider harmful bacteria and parasites. http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cyclospora-outbreak-possibly-linked-to-fresh-produce-warn-canadian-health-officials-1.3184525 going to skip out on that salad mix now my friend? Or only things that reaffirm your beliefs?
                          Hide Replies (7)
                          • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                            Removed by moderator.
                          • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                            Sorry to stir things up again, but how exactly do you figure the cyclospora got in/on the veggies? I'm not a pathologist, but methinks the fecal 'stuff' typically gets on the veggies from farm animals or other sources. Don't paint this or e-coli on spinach as inherent safety issues with veggies. And to think the tolerable amounts of those wonderful ingredients in milk is following extensive, 'world-class' efforts to sanitize it.
                            Hide Replies (5)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              You're right it does get on there from "other sources" as well as manure from organic farming practices. My point is all food has safety issues, so it's unfair to try to point to one area of food supply (somatic cells which was the original argument). Does that mean you should stop eating fruits and vegetables? No, but if you're trying to fear monger against dairy etc, it's unfair to point to possible contamination in animal products when fruits and vegetables of risk factors as well. The best diet is one of balance and moderation. Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956713516300937
                              Hide Replies (4)
                              • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                                The conclusion of the very article you've shared: "The results of this study indicate that the contamination of fresh fruits and vegetables with bacteria at levels representing a risk to public health is rare in the Canadian marketplace. This finding suggests that food safety practices carried out by the different players along the food supply chain, from agricultural practices by the farmers to handling practices by the food distributors and vendors are generally good." And the minimal risk that is present would be virtually nonexistent if fecal matter didn't somehow make its way on to the produce.
                                Hide Replies (3)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  Again you're missing the point, and your last claim "minimal risk that is present would be virtually nonexistent if fecal matter didn't somehow make its way on to the produce" can not be substantiated. My point is, all foods have a contamination risk, yes even produce. To solely point to dairy as the only place of possible contamination is ill-informed, unfair, and more importantly is part of an agenda to kill the dairy farm. Otherwise it would be a balanced approach noting the contamination risks of produce as well. But yet you have the spin that again animal agriculture is entirely to blame for produce contamination. Or will you concede that fecal matter may come from employees not probably washing their hands?
                                  Hide Replies (2)
                                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                                    Where are the other small dairy farmers in this discussion but you?Are they paid off? or something? why is it just you in these discussions ryanshaw? It's puzzling...why no other factory farmed diary farmer is taking a stance? or the "small" cow farms?
                                    Hide reply (1)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      They are too busy loving and caring for their animals, do you know how long a farmer works each day? They know the truth about the welfare they provide. "Factory farmerd dairy farmer"?? Small cow farms? This process is not indicative of how the general public feels as the consultants attest to.
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Why don't you try becoming vegan? It's a real lovely lifestyle. No harm.
                        Hide reply (1)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Yea vegans seem like non-judgemental people.
                  • Francois over 2 years ago
                    It is naturally present in the milk.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Removed by moderator.
                    Hide Replies (2)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      "Stop it already with the scientific studies" hmmm I think that's a good thing. Humans are able to achieve a lot of things they weren't designed for (and who are you to decide that, are you an evolutionary biologist, or making that determination to fit your own narrative?) With your logic we ought to stop cooking with fire, we shouldn't fly, we shouldn't use medicine. I believe dogs don't have the same brains nor opposable thumbs, are you really trying to use a canine analogy?Actually (again science) claims Bonobos and Chimpanzees are humans closest relative http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/bonobos-join-chimps-closest-human-relatives. Okay let's go with your logic that we ought to do what others in the animal kingdom do, let's look at our closest relative, (again it's not the silver back gorilla) chimps, they kill and cannibalize their own, so with your logic we should be doing that because chimps do it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/564321And thank you for keeping this respectful by saying all those nasty things at the end of the comment, shows your professionalism, but I won't bite I'll keep this civil. We do have bulls that breed the heifers on the farm, and once the cycle is over we trade bulls with other local farms to diversify the herd, and yes they do roam pasture with the heifers.
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Removed by moderator.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Well in my elementary school pictures we had this "one" tall guy...no other guy or gal was a basketball player height like they are today?
                • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                  And did anyone see the antibiotic resistance on the website of the Canadian government? One of the causes is animal agriculture....
              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                Jonathon Maguire who conducted the study mentioned in the CBC article is the lead investigator for TARGet Kids who is funded among others by Dairy Farmers of Canada so I tend to believe that he is inclined to offer a mostly biased interpretation of any research in favour of the dairy industry. Having taller kids is not necessarily an indication of health. Some may argue that it may be the fact that cow milk in general is made by nature to ensure baby calf puts on about 2 lb a day through its natural growth hormones. The other article is practically paid for by the dairy industry: each author effort was sponsored by various dairy lobby groups.
                Hide Replies (6)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  Again... you can't just say these studies are flawed based off the sponsors. If the Climate Action Network of Canada sponsored a study that showed fossil fuels indeed contributed to global warming would you say well the study can't be trusted because of who paid for it?
                  Hide Replies (5)
                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                    Your correlation is not correct. Dairy industry sponsoring researchers who come up with results in favour of the industry is more like tobbaco companies sponsoring researchers who come and say that tobbaco is good for you (which happened)
                    Hide Replies (4)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      It's called an analogy not correlation. See my earlier comments about your Tobacco comparison.
                      Hide Replies (3)
                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                        Here is another analogy: Dairy Industry sponsoring researchers who come up with results in favor of the industry is like McDonalds sponsoring researchers who say people need to eat at McDonald at least once a day for better health. Here is how food industry played in the past: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html
                        Hide Replies (2)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Well if that's the comparison let's see the the two species of your argument where the comparison is valid then. 1) Dairy Industry= McDonalds, (or per your link 'sugar') dairy sponsored peer-reviewed literature found in US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health showing the health benefits or dairy. So 2) we need published peer-reviewed medical research recent (last 5 years) that shows the health benefits of McDonalds, and/or sugary drinks and of which are sponsored by McDonalds, or a sugar company.
          • lmadril over 2 years ago
            Agree there is some nutrition from dairy milk and it is delicious. But why continue to use animals when its available in other plant based forms? Why is it ok to keep animals in unnatural positions their entire lives so we can have a glass of milk when we can eat plant based foods and feel and receive same benefits? I understand you are being the advocate here, although one of only ones really. This is your life, your business and your soul goes into it and you likely care about being as kind and obey rules as much as possible. But you cant look at animals as having feelings and rights to comfort and care when your in large grade farming. That was likely your first lesson as a child, to see them with no feelings as nourishing milk and as business. You wont win this battle since it really comes down to pleasure of drinking milk and making money which is what most dairy and meat farmers care about. If your a small organic farmer with a few cows maybe you see life there different but you'd be that 1% for the other 99% animals are being abused and for nothing real or substantial. We have to think as a country and to what is valuable to us. Sadly dairy farming is not one of those things any longer and we have now a government entity who has access to all studies and true documentation and mainly are professionals like yourself and they agree. Id say you don't know more about it than they do.
            Hide Replies (41)
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              Because more studies are needed to conclude that plant-based alternatives are a suitable replacement, the scientific literature isn’t at a consensus to make such a conclusion. Furthermore, studies have come out that show children that drink cow’s milk on average grow taller than those that stick to plant-based drinks. Also, can you tell me how many almonds are in a carton of almond milk, and how much is synthetic filler? To suggest we shift entirely to these “plant based” substitutes is dragging the cart before the horse so to speak. Unnatural positions? You mean lying down in a grass field, or standing for 4 minutes when milked? Not sure what you mean by this. My first lesson as a child was to love and care for our animals, in 4-H you’re taught how to properly feed, house, provide basic medical care, and even learn to wash and groom the animals because happy, healthy cows will mean the sustainability of your business.
              Hide Replies (40)
              • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                yes there is, just because your pals at the dairy industry are not ready to make a consensus, it does not mean it is not there.Healthiest and longest living people on earth are the ones who consume the least amount of meat and animal products and the most amounts of plant based foods from the National Geographic Blue Zones Project (www.BlueZones.com)
                Hide Replies (11)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  "Yes there is" What are you even referring to?"Healthiest and longest living people on earth are the ones who consume the least amount of meat and animal products and the most amounts of plant based foods" Where in BlueZone does it make that claim, or is that your claim?
                  Hide Replies (10)
                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                    Here is the BlueZone link where plant based diets are connected to longevity: https://bluezones.com/2016/11/power-9/
                    Hide Replies (9)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Plants can lead to longevity yes per number 5, but where does it say we should not consume any animal products at all?
                      Hide Replies (8)
                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                        The definition of a plant based diet means elimination of reduction of animal products. Some researchers say no animal products are best for optimal health. Here are some studies that support the health benefits of a plant based diet: (reduction of heart diseases and cancer risks) http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2016.1138447?src=recsys and (plant based diet effective in treatment of fibromyalgia) http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/030097400447697?src=recsys and (plant based diet protects against cardiovascular diseases)
                        Hide Replies (6)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          You're missing the premise of my argument. I know the health benefits of consuming plant based products, my argument is eggs/poultry, dairy, lean meats in addition to fruits and vegetables is also optimal.
                          Hide Replies (5)
                          • nzouri over 2 years ago
                            I am happy to hear that you agree that plants lead to longevity. I have to point that Blue Zone communities (characterized by longevity and better health) tends to eat a mostly plant based diet. Okinawa's for example eat 8 times less dairy that in North America. Red meat is type 2 carcinogenic as per WHO. Blue Zone communities eat very little red meat. Since less dairy and less meat is associated with better health and longevity, it is easy to deduct that no dairy and no meat could have even better results.
                            Hide Replies (4)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              Removed by moderator.
                            • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                              Actually the WHO said it is a type 1 carcinogen and has done a lot of backtracking since.
                              Hide reply (1)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              Did I say eating plants leads to longevity, no, did I say they are bad for you? Again no. Dairy actually can not be inferred as a deterrent to longevity in an observation of diet through an overall sample of population. You need controls in place to infer that, these are observations over a general population where environmental, genetic factors play a major role. So you read that and claim "It is easy to deduct that no dairy and no meat could have even better results." ?
                      • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                        In your heart, if you could feel it.
              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                Taller kids does not mean healthier kids. Some say otherwise: http://jech.bmj.com/content/52/3/142.short
                Hide Replies (4)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  No you're right, but from the study they do indeed appear to be taller.
                  Hide Replies (3)
                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                    Taller kids does not mean they are healthier.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Taller kids..shorter kids...animal agriculture is a huge contributor to climate change...all these kids will not have a great future period.
                    Hide reply (1)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Define huge % wise. And again I read this dramatic exit speech but yet here we are again.
              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                So, you are saying that we should not be drinking plant based milks because they may not be a suitable alternative? People have been consuming plants for a lot longer than animal milk so common sense says that we may be better adapted to consume plant based milks. Also, height is not an indication of health.
                Hide Replies (21)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  Again you and the point are complete strangers. I never said we shouldn't drink plant based products.
                  Hide Replies (20)
                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                    You suggested people should not replace dairy with plant based milk until there are more studies to prove that plant based milks are a suitable replacement. And I am saying that dairy was introduced in human consumption way after people start consuming plants. We do not need to prove that plants are good for people, it is common knowledge.
                    Hide Replies (19)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      And we have proven dairy, eggs, lean meats are beneficial as well, unless you're a vegan for some reason. And it's true we don't know the effects of soy milk or almond milk on growth, disease etc. I mean we don't even know how many almonds are in a carton of almond milk and how much is synthetic filler? So enjoy my friend and I'll enjoy my milk, yogurt, cheese, chocolate, ice cream, butter etc.
                      Hide Replies (18)
                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                        There is overwhelming evidence that dairy, eggs and meat (lean or not) is detrimental to human health. I tend to believe that you accept this evidence as well because you mentioned in another post that you go to vegan restaurants. Some heart diseases have no symptoms until you drop dead, so enjoy your saturated fat in dairy products.
                        Hide Replies (9)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          There is no overwhelming evidence, I still eat dairy, eggs etc because I've read about the benefits of inclusion of those products in a diet, as with fish. Did you just say I'll drop dead eating dairy? Vegans.
                          Hide reply (1)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Removed by moderator.
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Actually I tried a vegan restaurant a few times and until a saw an information card claiming milk causes osteoporosis (which isn't true) I stopped going there. Guess what happened to that restaurant? It shut down...so sad.
                          Hide Replies (6)
                          • nzouri over 2 years ago
                            Here is an article that says consuming dairy does not lead to strong bones as the dairy industry was advertising in the past: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/115/3/736.short Why the lies? Here is an article that says higher milk consumption during teenage years was not associated with a lower risk of hip fracture in older adults and that there is no association between calcium intake and fracture risk: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/
                            Hide Replies (5)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              Regarding the Harvard link, the variable that led to higher risk for fractures for teenage males was height, not milk consumption as recall of intake was sparse at best, but overall the hypothesis was that consumption of dairy may cause one to grow taller than without consumption of dairy, or as one recent study compared with 'soy/almond' beverages kids seem to have grown taller. Also risky activities in young males is notably higher which also leads to increase of hip fractures (this is why young male car insurance premiums are higher on average). So what's the conclusion? If you're taller, you have an increased risk of hip fracture as a male teenager, also known as the law of gravity. Could you share the first study from 2004 instead of the abstract? It's asking $25 USD, if you want we could split the cost as it's unfair for you to be out $25 since you already purchased this study. I should point out more recent studies of the scientific literature (which from the abstract is the 2004 analysis) have shown, "Milk and dairy products contain a number of nutrients that are required for building strong bones in childhood and for their maintenance during adulthood with the aim to reduce osteoporosis and bone fractures in older age (48). The European Commission has concluded that protein, calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, manganese, zinc, vitamin D, and vitamin K are necessary for maintaining normal bones (European Commission regulation 2012). With the exception of vitamin D, these nutrients are all present in significant amounts in milk and dairy products."48. Rizzoli R. Dairy products, yogurts, and bone health. Am J Clin Nutr. 2014;99(5 Suppl):1256S–62S. [PubMed]
                              Hide Replies (4)
                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                To simplify what you said above from the Harvard study: dairy makes kids grow taller and taller kids have a higher risk for fractures. So its clear: there is a connection between dairy and fractures.
                                Hide Replies (3)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  Let's simplify even more nzouri:A= milk consumption B= Taller Kids C= Hip Fractures. Your connection is A=B=C but in reality B is the necessary variable to make the formula work, therefore, A does not equal C because the study is saying B=C and you admitted that yourself "taller kids have a higher risk for fractures". A is simply an independent variable and the dependent is C, therefore, A can not equal C but B equals C as the study points out.
                                  Hide Replies (2)
                                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                    A= milk consumption, B= taller kids, C= Hip Fractures, A=B and B=C therefore A=C. Its perfectly clear!
                                    Hide reply (1)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      So in your logic drinking milk directly causes hip fractures 'A=C. Yikes.
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Enjoy global warming everyone...it's a true fact.
                        Hide Replies (7)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Still at it. It's true, what's not true is 51% of green house gases come from 'animal' agriculture.
                          Hide Replies (2)
                          • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                            Well, if you accept that 14.5% of emissions come from animal agriculture, there certainly isn't 14.5% of conversation directed towards solving the emissions from that sector, and there is more than 13% of conversation about green transportation. I don't think a true environmentalist should be allowed to mention domestic electric vehicles without acknowledging that animals produce more emissions than cars. (By the way, the 51% figure was a demonstration that the FAO were missing attributions to animal agriculture and were using arbitrary accounting techniques; The Worldwatch Institute is one of the most prestigious think tanks in Washington, and the FAO team, now loaded with cattle industry representation, have refused to continue the debate.)
                            Hide reply (1)
                        • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                          Would you sooner have global cooling?
                          Hide Replies (3)
                          • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                            The fastest route to global cooling is to eliminate sources of the high-impact, short-term greenhouse gas methane. With a half-life of 8 years, we could see a slowing, halting, or even reversal of global warming, avoiding the unknowable tipping points that loom in the near future (or even now). Stopping animal agriculture is even better than suddenly stopping fossil fuel combustion -- the latter also creates soot and other aerosols that are offsetting some of the GHGs. If they stop being produced and fall out of the atmosphere, it will cause a sudden surge in global temperatures, endangering arctic floes and permafrost.
                            Hide Replies (2)
              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                Removed by moderator.
          • ckadlec over 2 years ago
            Removed by moderator.
          • billybt over 2 years ago
            The only nutritional benefit of cows milk is for calves..It is quite simply growth formula for newborn calves ...Eat what the cow eats, not the cow !
            Hide Replies (5)
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              So we should be eating grain, grass and hay? Milk has a lot of proven nutrients for humans as well, protein, numerous vitamins, calcium, riboflavin etc.
              Hide Replies (4)
              • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
                That would seem to be wilfully missing the point. If you don't drink milk/eat meat the most-oft heard question is where do you get your protein? If we consumed more of what we already grow directly or cut out the 'middle man' cows, we could expand and diversify what we grow and what nutrients we consume. Can you admit that it's OK to not drink milk, and that it's perfectly feasible for most to adopt a plant-based diet? Soy/almond/cashew/rice/hemp etc. milk does not need to be an absolute 1:1 substitution to be able to eliminate cow's milk from your diet, unless your diet solely consists of 'milk'. While I agree standardization or better labelling of plant milks would be a good thing, holding up the lack of a 1:1 equivalency is far from logical proof that "aha, you/we *need* milk".
                Hide reply (1)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  I have absolutely no problem with what people eat or drink, be vegan if you wish. My issue is with the misinformation about dairy that "abuse and torture are systemic", it "causes cancer, autism, heart disease" etc. I actually even dine at vegan restaurants, my issue is the fear mongering of dairy.
              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                Human milk.
                Hide reply (1)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  You like human milk?
          • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
            Milk doesn't offer unique nutrients, just unique hormones from cows, a sugar that a lot of people are allergic to, and a protein derivative of morphine, believed to keep the infant coming back to the breast. When milk is concentrated and congealed, is it a wonder why everyone can't quit cheese? It's common knowledge to vegans that most margarines aren't dairy free -- the manufacturers are fond of putting in casomorphin. I suppose it may be the source of "buttery" taste, but I'm sure it's not lost on them that it's also the addictive part. Keep 'em coming back to the breast, indeed.
        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
          Great argument....
        • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
          #NoDairy https://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/dangers-of-cows-milk/ Cow milk is for baby cows Got Osteoporosis?? (Clever Billion Dollar Subsidized Marketing Campaign eh?)If Factory Dairy Farms had Glass Walls Vegetarians - would be #Vegan.Almonds, Soy etc.
          Hide Replies (2)
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            Removed by moderator.
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            That link holds absolutely no truth, it's just propaganda at best.
      • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
        If you were truly concerned about pesticides you would look at the evidence from the joint USDA and FDA study that showed that animal products (meat and milk) are the top sources of pesticides int he food system (yet they are NOT regulated or checked).http://www.prevention.com/food/healthy-eating-tips/12-commonly-contaminated-foods1. "Beef, Pork and Poultry The EPA reports that meat is contaminated with higher levels of pesticides than ANY plant food. "2. "Milk, Cheese and Butter For reasons similar to those for meat, the fat in dairy products poses a high risk for contamination by pesticides. "
        Hide Replies (29)
        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
          Sorry you're right, I thought this was about the Health Canada Food Guide, and evidence pertaining to animal agriculture in Canada.
          Hide Replies (28)
          • ckadlec over 2 years ago
            No animal's milk is required in the human diet period. If it were naturally, then all human mother's would be in delight to see their children everyday after infancy and into adulthood. But I think a mother's breast would be very tender...just like a cow's udder....which is reaching the ground called Mastitis.
            Hide Replies (27)
            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
              There is no mastitis in the milk on the store shelf, farmers go through several checks to ensure this, including inspection, testing, and filter traps. You would have saw this at the dairy operations you've visited here in Canada. Which farms have you been to again?
              Hide Replies (26)
              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                Again, please watch Mercy for Animals Undercover Investigators on YouTube. Maybe your farm is the small farm? But factory farming exists in Canada and Mastitis is common. Please watch and tell me what you see...this is what I'm fighting for right now.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO-8PO3UCFg
                Hide Replies (25)
                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                  I have something better than YouTube, actual physical dairy farming experience. Stay away from the propaganda and actually visit a dairy farm, then you will see how things are truly done, there are many open farm days. And if you still feel the same way that's fine, at least you went which is more than most would do. All the best.
                  Hide Replies (24)
                  • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                    I'd rather get my calcium from Kale and broccoli. What an ordeal to grow cows and milk them in factory settings, ship milk around in tanker trucks. You can't wash milk!From Wikipedia: "Somatic cells originate only from inside the animal's udder, while the bacteria are usually from external contaminations, such as insufficient cleaning of the milk transport equipment or insufficient external cleansing of the cow's udder and teats prior to milking. Milking equipment can also be accidentally knocked or kicked off an animal onto the floor, and contaminants on the barn floor can be sucked into the milk line by the system vacuum...the somatic cell count shall be not more than 400,000 cells per milliliter, it is 750,000 in the USA and 1,000,000 in Brazil." From the Wikipedia source: "There are some general farm management techniques that can help reduce SCC levels:• Environmental management including cleaning stalls, ensuring drinking water is clean • Removal of udder hair• Examining both pre and post milking procedures• Keeping a closer eye on cows who have a history of high SCC• Monitoring mastitis infection rates• Analysing cultures and milk quality reports• Dry-off cows following lactation treatment procedures • Paying particular attention to calving pens • Consistent nutrition progress for spring heifers, dry and lactating cows"Keeping milk facilities clean and dairy cows infection free is a full-time job with zero chance of absolute success. Similarly, there is an "acceptable" level of bacteria in milk, many of them associated with feces contamination. Several bacterial measures described here: http://articles.extension.org/pages/21197/how-milk-quality-is-assessedFor a nation concerned about food waste, we should not be proud of our regulations that dumps out substandard product for our safety. Drink water instead -- the water footprint of milk is 1000:1, meaning 1 litre of milk took 1000 litres of water to produce it in its life cycle -- that's more water than the recommended water intake of an adult male for a year.
                    Hide Replies (23)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Hi Ray,I understand your concerns about food safety, but with all those checks in place, the milk on the store shelves is indeed safe to consume, that's not a debate. Why attack only dairy, but not fruits and vegetables regarding contamination concerns?I'm not a fan of the fear mongering, but I'll still consume fruits and vegetables after reading this because as most nutritionists will tell you, a diet comprised of balance and moderation is the one that's best. Okay, again you're cherry picking, what about the massive water intake it takes to grow an almond for those that wish to drink almond juice? What about almond farmers drilling thousands of feet down into aquifiers to pump out water which has resulted, in some areas, in subsidence of around 11 inches a year, which “threatens vital infrastructure like bridges, roads, and irrigation canals” and could trigger earthquakes. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2015/oct/21/almond-milk-quite-good-for-you-very-bad-for-the-planethttp://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/wheres-californias-water-going/ http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956713516300937
                      Hide Replies (22)
                      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                        All I'm asking is for a balanced approach to industry criticism.
                      • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                        Proportions, as I've said, is a form of balance that I endorse. Balance for the sake of balance is nonsense, and is a tactic of the Merchants of Doubt (a brief steer back to climate change denial and Fox News insisting on equal time for the other viewpoint). Smoking causes cancer, I don't need a balanced viewpoint from the tobacco industry. Is the Standard American Diet a balance of refined sugar, deep fried Mars bars, corn dogs and pizza? Shall we talk of all things can be good in moderation (an ambiguous word, also in the playbook of Big Tobacco and Big Ag)? Dairy has enjoyed a renaissance of healthful aura and it's time to stand on science -- what do we need the stuff for? Jobs? Something to make breakfast cereal wet? During this recent era of widespread dairy consumption (as a vegan I ponder the presence of whey and casein as arbitrary ingredients in everything) it has been observed that the highest rates of osteoporosis has been in countries of high dairy consumption. I consumed it daily, thinking/feeling that milk is white like bones so it must be good for bones. Fortified soy beverage has a much healthier profile than milk, far less impact on the environment, no casomorphins or animal hormones. Kale is a healthier source of calcium with many benefits, despite the risk of contamination from the animal agriculture industry, the origin of all dangerous food pathogens. Almond production is an industry, that, like any other, should stand to scrutiny; I started avoiding them for the obscure (?) reason that they rely on cross-country bee delivery for pollination. They do not have the same $Trillion defensive mechanism of smoke and mirrors, or the carpet-bombing advertising of the meat and dairy industry's check off programs. There is not a false economy of almonds (#Meatonomics). They have no lobby to influence national health consultations like this one.
                        Hide Replies (20)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          You’re absolutely correct about the science. Again, there is no scientific proof that dairy is detrimental to human health, if you would take 5 minutes to read the studies I’ve shared you would see there is truth to that. Instead vegans choose to point to some of the industry sponsors of the numerous studies I’ve shared as concrete evidence that the science of health benefits of dairy must be made up. But why aren’t you able to point out the research design flaws, the problems with the data collection, the skewed analysis….anything? These studies have been peer-reviewed and regardless of the sponsor (who played no role in the research process) are indeed valid, again I ask where are the fallacies? No they have no lobby to influence the process here because this is mostly a California industry (almonds), but check out the vegan activists posting and copying the same thing over and over again in an attempt to skew the process, like vegan and animal rights activist Anna Pippus calls for, “This food guide hasn’t been finalized yet, so now is a critical time to participate by saying what you like (and don’t like) about the draft. Industry is already organizing and lobbying, trying to unfairly retain its foothold at the expense of our health. We need our voices to be equally loud.”http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/progress-canadas-new-food-guide-will-favor-plant_us_5966eb4ce4b07b5e1d96ed5e
                          Hide Replies (19)
                          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                            Please read Ray, I know you're a vegan activist, but try to be impartial a little at least. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/
                            Hide Replies (2)
                            • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                              Vegans, and other clever people, follow the money trail and reject the notion of "concrete evidence" from compromised boards. I fundamentally reject industries that self regulate from boards that are assigned to increase profits. Half of the writers receive funding from the Dairy Research Institute, and Arne Astrup is on the advisory board for McDonalds and McCain, and a consultant for Nestlé. I've leant out my copy of Meatonomics so I can't hunt down the footnote for "industry-funded research is up to four times more likely to reach conclusions favorable to the sponsor than unfavorable." I find the conclusion of the above article suspect: "The totality of available scientific evidence supports that intake of milk and dairy products contribute to meet nutrient recommendations, and may protect against the most prevalent chronic diseases, whereas very few adverse effects have been reported." Yet the "Results" state "The most recent evidence suggested that intake of milk and dairy products was associated with reduced risk of childhood obesity." "The most recent" seems to suggest a breakthrough alternative in understanding, while "The totality of available scientific evidence" suggests that all science is pointing towards the good news about milk. It seems that "the totality" that they hold aloft is their own recent metastudy, which is certainly a good interpretation for their sponsors! Not terribly interesting, however, to this national consultation that explicitly rejects industry input (at this stage, at least).
                              Hide reply (1)
                              • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                Did you just say "Vegans and other clever people?" lol That's fine you can reject peer-reviewed medical studies, to each their own, people also believe the Earth is flat.
                          • nzouri over 2 years ago
                            You are using the term vegan as a derogative, and acuse people of being vegan activists even when the discussion is only about dairy as a food item. At the same time you admitted to be an insider of the dairy industry who sat of dairy boards. What about the lives of countless families that eat meat and dairy increasing their risk for chronic diseases? Don't you think people deserve an unbiased opinion that does not originates from the deep pockets of the dairy and meat industry? We already have the experience of the powerful tobacco industry who delayed public access to factual knowledge of the risks associated with smoking. Why should we do the same with the dairy and meat industry?
                            Hide Replies (15)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              Removed by moderator.
                              Hide Replies (14)
                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                Comparing dairy industry with tobacco is fair. Both are employing same methods in their attempt to drive up the consumption of their products that are known to affect human health.
                                Hide Replies (13)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  You're right one has a positive affect on human health and the other doesn't, bet you can't guess which one is good for you.
                                  Hide Replies (12)
                                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                    There is evidence that both dairy and tobacco are detrimental to human health.
                                    Hide Replies (11)
                                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                      Actually you're right about smoking, you're incorrect about dairy.
                                      Hide Replies (10)
                                      • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                                        This Canada's Food Guide is going to dispel the notion that there is anything special about the mammary fluids from bovines. The only reason that it ever merited a distinctive food group was due to misinformation and pressure from the industry that produces it. In the survey that arrived at this consultation Canada expressed that we didn't want "expertise" of the industry because we don't trust them to prioritize safety or even truth over profit. They have deep pockets, and have funded research to find particular results in their favour. In the end, dairy is just a product that we've been sold to create strong bones and there isn't a shred of evidence that it reduces fractures. Despite it's popular run as a superfood, The upcoming guide will recognize milk as simply a source of calcium, vitamin D and, if you're into that kind of thing, animal protein. These nutrients are available in plants, and plant-based proteins are being discovered as healthier. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-milk-good-for-our-bones/
                                        Hide Replies (9)
                                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                          If dairy is indeed removed, it will be based on misinformation and fear mongering at best since numerous peer-reviewed studies have shown the important benefits of a diet which includes dairy products. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/ (before you reply keep in mind those that sponsor the studies do not play a role in any of the research design, variable selection, data collection, data sorting, inferential/descriptive analysis, or report writing.) These studies have been peer-viewed and published, the onus would be to identify design flaws, insufficient data collection, and faulty analysis etc. Now with the video you posted from Gregor (the vegan Dr who collects money via his charity to make these videos) and named his organization the 'Vegan Research Institute' but changed the name to get more 'credibility', has claimed such things as turkey is listed as a carcinogenic by the WHO (not true) milk causes autism (a campaign PETA tried to pull off) and vegan blood cures cancer, all of which can not be substantiated. Now getting to the video...this is a classic case of cherry picking statements from the study, and only briefly flashing those up on a screen while making statements like "may" etc to help infer a connection. So...the Harvard study...Gregor goes with the faulty hypothesis that perhaps milk acidifies the bones and that is what leading to an increase in hip fractures. Actually no where in that study does it say that, what it actually concludes (and this is the reason Gregor) didn't note this.... "high consumption may adversely influence risk by increasing height." What does that mean? If you consume dairy there is an association that one will grow taller than one that does not, or in the case of a recent study, those that consume plant based milks. http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/milk-children-height-1.4149832 So the study says if you're taller and you're a teenage male you have an increased risk of hip fractures, otherwise known as the law of gravity associated with risky activity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24247817 In regards, to Gregor's acidity hypothesis which he runs with in the video, this has been debunked, "Milk and dairy products neither produce acid upon metabolism nor cause metabolic acidosis, and systemic pH is not influenced by diet. Observations of higher dairy product intake in countries with prevalent osteoporosis do not hold when urban environments are compared, likely due to physical labor in rural locations." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22081694
                                          Hide Replies (8)
                                          • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                                            "...those that sponsor the studies do not play a role in any of the research design, variable selection, data collection, data sorting, inferential/descriptive analysis, or report writing." No, they simply pay for an expected conclusion. I'm sorry, if you think that your exposé that Dr. Greger is a vegan and that's some kind of smoking gun of discredit, your biases are spilled on the floor in front of you. I think you need to express your own interests in this argument. If dairy is removed as an essential food group and it is demoted to the status of "just food, with nutrients you might need but can get elsewhere." There has been decades of promotion of milk as a superfood; it has been judged and found wanting. There are increasing legions of people who do not consume dairy (and have always been a plethora of lactose intolerant people) and all they tend to be deficient in is phlegm. If you don't like Dr. Greger, how about Dr. Benjamin Spock's credentials? This is from the 9th edition of the most widely published book next to the Holy Bible: http://bit.ly/2upFiN2
                                            Hide Replies (3)
                                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                              Did I say since Gregor is a vegan that's all that's needed to discredit his work? No, I pointed out with sources where he cherry picks the data, highlights a faulty hypothesis and makes claims that aren't supported. Again I back up what I say with sources, you still have failed to point out the fallacies in my sources other than repeating yourself about the sponsors. Where is the data in your link instead of a simple statement???
                                              Hide Replies (2)
                                              • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
                                                You provided ONE source to exonerate milk, funded by McDonalds. If you have only one source, you may be the cherrypicker. You also avoided stating your interests in defending dairy. I'll go first. I disclaim that I receive no money from any special interests; I don't know a dairy or soy or almond farmer. I am a vegan, a self-recognized environmentalist and I voted for the Green Party. I know that 1 gallon of milk requires 1000 gallons of water to produce, which is incidentally approximately the amount of water the Canada Food Guide recommends an adult male to drink in a year (3L/day). The onus is therefore upon milk to prove its necessity in the human diet, scientifically, not using its $75 million/year advertising budget (Canadians wanting cheese inside their pizza crust is different than needing dairy; see What The Health on NETFLIX (at 53:30) for an amusing recreation of a beef and dairy checkoff program that funds six full-time marketers to come up with a promotion for McDonalds: "Triple cheese decker McCheese Muffin Stuffed Bacon Cheese Slider...with extra cheese!" On second thought, it is NOT amusing that six people are hired by the US government to plot how to get more meat and cheese in American diets.)
                                                Hide reply (1)
                                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                                  Seriously What the Health? Kip Anderson the vegan activist is off the mark in so many ways, everything he's claimed has been debunked. Didn't you say you're an obese vegan? you know that a gallon of milk needs one 1000gallons of water? According to your farm experience, or watching Cowspiracy on your couch?
                                          • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                                            And the Conflicts of Interest in this study are not guided by a profit driven need to misinform? Hah!Conflicts of interest and funding for the milk study quoted above (which I'm sure he will delete as soon as he reads this, just like he did the last time)Tanja Kongerslev Thorning has no conflicts of interest to declare. Anne Raben is recipient of research funding from the Dairy Research Institute, Rosemont, IL, USA and the Danish Agriculture & Food Council.Tine Tholstrup is recipient of research grants from the Danish Dairy Research Foundation and the Dairy Research Institute, Rosemont, IL. The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts. Sabita S. Soedamah-Muthu received funding from the Global Dairy Platform, Dairy Research Institute and Dairy Australia for meta-analyses on cheese and blood lipids and on dairy and mortality. The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the meta-analyses, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts. Ian Givens is recipient of research grants from UK Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC), UK Medical Research Council (MRC), Arla Foods UK, AAK-UK (both in kind), The Barham Benevolent Foundation, Volac UK, DSM Switzerland and Global Dairy Platform. He is a consultant for The Bio-competence Centre of Healthy Dairy Products, Tartu, Estonia, and in the recent past for The Dairy Council (London). Arne Astrup is recipient of research grants from Arla Foods, DK; Danish Dairy Research Foundation; Global Dairy Platform; Danish Agriculture & Food Council; GEIE European Milk Forum, France. He is member of advisory boards for Dutch Beer Knowledge Institute, NL; IKEA, SV; Lucozade Ribena Suntory Ltd, UK; McCain Foods Limited, USA; McDonald's, USA; Weight Watchers, USA. He is a consultant for Nestlé Research Center, Switzerland; Nongfu Spring Water, China. Astrup receives honoraria as Associate Editor of American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and for membership of the Editorial Boards of Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism and Annual Review of Nutrition. He is recipient of travel expenses and/or modest honoraria (
                                            Hide Replies (3)
                                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                              The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the studies, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts.
                                              Hide Replies (2)
                                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                                The sponsors always have a role, even if it is implied. If its paid by the food industry its paid advertising, not science.
                                                Hide reply (1)
                                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                                  so they did the analysis and wrote the report is what you're saying. Yikes.
      • Ron over 2 years ago
        In ketogenic eating, milk is only discouraged because of its high carbohydrate (sugar) count. Mothers milk for babies is natural and great, not for its carbs, but for its high fat content. If an animal is grass fed, both meat and cream is encouraged for its healthy omega 3 fat content. A couple of tablespoons of milk in you daily carb count won't kill you, but one, two, or three glasses a day as recommended now, could eventually kill you by kicking you out of ketosis back into sugar burning, thereby leaving you susceptible to modern day diseases. Do the research please.
        Hide reply (1)
        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
          "Do your research please" you need peer-reviewed sources my friend.
      • Ray Kowalchuk over 2 years ago
        Portions of grains can get out of control. We must emphasize the half-plate-of-fruits-and-veggies philosophy.
        Hide reply (1)
        • reitsmad over 2 years ago
          Fruit and vegetables can get out of control as well because of their sugar (carbohydrate) content. Fructose, not just from fruit in excess (particularly citrus) but sweetened drinks and fruit juice is particularly bad because it is only metabolized by the liver so any energy that is not immediately used by the liver is stored as fat in the liver. This is because fructose is a seen as a poison by the body and is treated the same as alcohol. Do you drink a lot of beer as well? Eventually this will lead to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and dysfunction in regulating glucose. This activates the pancreas to release insulin resulting in fat storage of excess glucose in the blood stream. This is a normal protective action by the body but eventually the system is overloaded and type 2 diabetes develops which is an abnormally high level of glucose and insulin in the blood stream. You probably have some if not all markers for metabolic syndrome as well. See - http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/metabolic-syndrome/home/ovc-20197517 I do hope you get whatever it is you are eating / drinking under control so you will eat clean and improve your health.
      • brndn over 2 years ago
        World population is way, way ,way past the point where everyone could be fed without grain. The Paleo diet is a luxury diet.
    • scganguli over 2 years ago
      I would like to point out that the recommendations listed in the link provided are for a HIGH SATURATED FAT and low carbohydrate and high meat/dairy diet. This is what got us into the problem we are in today. This will not make people healthier. See the DVD 'Forks over Knives' (at your public library, Netflix, iTunes or on the web). Also read 'The China Study.'
      Hide Replies (109)
      • JulienB over 2 years ago
        While a whole food plant-based diet is the BEST diet, I have to disagree with scganguli a tiny little bit. I agree that saturated fat is bad, but it can't be blamed for everything. https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/plant-based-diets/
        Hide reply (1)
        • scganguli over 2 years ago
          Good point Julien - agreed.
      • sedmacdonald over 2 years ago
        AGREED - there are no benefits to dairy that you cannot get from plant based sources, there is absolutely no necessity for them to recommend dairy or red meat intake for that matter.
        Hide Replies (88)
        • jason wilson over 2 years ago
          You are not reading the report correctly. In it they state "Stop steering people away from whole foods, such as whole fat dairy and red meat" they are not recommending dairy or red meat. I fully agree with this statement, dairy and red meat in moderation can benefit your diet. Yes you can get all of the amino acids when you eat a variety of plant based proteins but red meat has all of them, no single plant does so you must be informed and carful in order to get all of your amino acids via plants.
          Hide Replies (87)
          • joshArmel over 2 years ago
            You are incorrectly educated about amino acids. You need to do your research on this topic before spreading information regarding it. Here is credible information showing you are incorrect."you will find that any single whole natural plant food, or any combination of them, if eaten as one’s sole source of calories for a day, would provide all of the essential amino acids and not just the minimum requirements but far more than the recommended requirements."A quote from Jeff Novick, MS, RD, who was referencing William Rose's(who obtained degrees in both biochemistry and nutrition) research: https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-myth-of-complementary-protein/#gs.9LXwP38
            Hide Replies (81)
            • jason wilson over 2 years ago
              list one single plant that if eaten has every amino acid that is required. I know you can get a good balance of amino acids if you eat the right combinations of plants. That is what I indicated in my post.
              Hide Replies (80)
              • sedmacdonald over 2 years ago
                You can't make a blanket statement that red meat will benefit your diet when it's associated with other health risks. For example: eggs are a great source of protein, doesn't mean it will benefit my diet as a whole since they're extremely high in cholesterol. Meat may be a great source of amino acids, or a source of B12 for example which you can't find in any plants but that doesn't make it a "healthy food" or a food that will benefit your health, it will only benefit x part of your health (in this case amino acids). I think it's counter productive to recommend red meat to get your amino acids when the guidelines already say to get a variety of plant foods which will give a person all the amino acids they need (as you just said). I would much prefer to research foods high in amino acids and consume them on a daily basis rather than eat foods high in saturated fats simply to cover my amino acids.
                Hide Replies (69)
                • jason wilson over 2 years ago
                  Plain and simple red meat can be a healthy part of a balanced diet and that is what the guide should say. I didn't imply that red meat will benefit your diet, and that isn't what the statement says. "Stop steering people away from whole foods, such as whole fat dairy and red meat" Also you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet; I wouldn't trust one person with a MS who is writing a blog on the internet.
                  Hide Replies (15)
                  • sedmacdonald over 2 years ago
                    I got all of my information from scientific journals, not "blogs on the internet". If you did you're own research on nutrition specifically on red meats, i trust you would find the same information.
                  • JulienB over 2 years ago
                    Meat can increase risk of getting cancer. https://youtu.be/A9kRDxjpwPk
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Red meat doesn't benefit the planet, period. Factory farming is destroying the planet. We won't have anything to eat if the Earth self destructs itself. Brazil is back on track in deforestation because of cattle production.What other species on the planet consumes milk after it's been weaned off their mother's? Zero...we need to use common sense as well, never mind the internet. I'm not a baby calve or a baby goat or camel, etc. My mom could of continued breast feeding me in my teens, but that would be silly, so why consume cow's milk or any other species milk, it just doesn't make sense.
                    Hide Replies (7)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      It has a lot of benefits period. Thats not a debate
                      Hide Replies (2)
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      Animals grazing turn up the soil and revitalize it with their excrement. Without them the earth would be a desert. Corn, soy and grain farming has destroyed the soil and made us sick.
                      Hide Replies (3)
                      • nzouri over 2 years ago
                        Most animals raised for meat are fed the corn you mentioned above. http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat Very few cattle raised for meat are grazing. No chicken or pork is grazing, ever! Pork manure is not even used as fertilizer due to parasites.
                      • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                        This planet would thrive without the human species. We are single handedly destroying the entire ecosystem.
                        Hide reply (1)
                        • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                          Some are restoring it. I work to prevent damage.
                  • tschisler over 2 years ago
                    Animals do not need to be part of a balanced diet. We can get all the necessary micronutrients from plants - period. Recommending anything else is misleading. As a medical doctor it is disappointing to see such a large group of physicians advocating for saturated fat and foods high in cholesterol. It is vital to also consider the global and ethical impact of our food choices. Recommending animal intake in any form does not promote the health of our planet. I'm concerned what will be left for my children if our way of eating continues. I really encourage anyone with questions to read the real unbiased science on nutritionfacts.org. Thanks.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    How about the environment? Have you researched what 160 billion animals do for the environment? Where does their waste goes....we are growing food for billions of suffering animals, meanwhile there are millions of starving babies? Not to mention the Amazon is being destroyed again at a records pace for cattle. This is not news, this is our reality people. Arizona, Phoenix reached 49° and planes could not take off due to the extreme heat...we need to wake up everybody...we are frying this planet and it starts what is on your plate.
                    Hide reply (1)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Manore spreading is where it goes, puts nutrients back in the soil.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Red Meat is processed. How does an animal's flesh remain pink in the grocery store? My husband a long time ago worked in a butcher shop, but is now vegan...he told me the horror stories on what they do to keep that flesh looking so fresh and pink. It's disgusting. Humans when they die, we need to drain the blood ASAP...and yet we have sausages wrapped in tight plastic wrap and that is edible? Meat is all processed, because you have to stop the natural decaying process with chemicals. On the package does it read the date the animal is killed? How many different animals are in that one package of ground cow?
                    Hide reply (1)
                    • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                      Removed by moderator.
                • nancyj over 2 years ago
                  Eggs will not raise your cholesterol. Eggs have been wrongly blamed for years and are an Almost perfect food.
                  Hide Replies (46)
                  • Karimsamra over 2 years ago
                    Perfect to increase risk of heart disease, diabetes and cancer. The study that shows eggs are remotely healthful are flawed and funded by the egg industry. If you like the taste of eggs, fine. I used to LOVE eggs. But to say they're the perfect food is extremely misguided and shows how misinformed you are about nutrition.
                    Hide Replies (8)
                    • JulienB over 2 years ago
                      Couldn't agree more. Here also a video about how eggs can't even be called healthy in the US. https://youtu.be/RtGf2FuzKo4
                      Hide Replies (3)
                      • janeisgreen over 2 years ago
                        Great video! Thanks for posting.
                      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                        Once again vegan propaganda from emails that are 10 years old. Thankfully the diet heart hypothesis and cholesterol myth are all but dead thanks to real science! I'm not sure how Dr. Gregor can use the name NutritionFacts.org since he doesn't seem to have his facts straight. Eggs are about as close to being a perfect food as you can get.
                        Hide reply (1)
                        • nzouri over 2 years ago
                          Removed by moderator.
                    • Insight over 2 years ago
                      Karimsamra those fear-mongering comments based on anti-industry rhetoric. YOUR comment shows how misguided you are about nutrition. (No, I'm not with industry, and yes, I am a vegetarian. And I have a degree in nutritional science and know how to be objective. An egg a day-preferably cage-free and humanely treated- will not cause any harm in healthy people)
                      Hide Replies (2)
                      • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                        you are part of the industry because you have no clue about all the misinformation that the egg industry has been caught with spreading in main stream media, in scientific research and in nutritionist / dietician organizations and institutions.Here are investigative documents showing what goes on behind closed doors in egg boards:
                      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                        Go on the website Physician Committee for Responsible Medicine. These are Dr's on nutritional science and they disagree with you.
                    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                      I have the solution for you...tofu scramble tastes amazing! Take half a package of organic firm tofu, crumble it up with a fork, cube and boil some potatoes, add some mushrooms, onions and whatever your heart desires, add some organic soya sauce if you like and ground pepper...tastes exactly like scrambled eggs : )
                  • JulienB over 2 years ago
                    Of course eggs will raise your cholesterol! Measure you cholesterol yourself 2 hours after a meal with eggs and watch it shoot right up. Watch this https://youtu.be/8g8ASQZ0dZw
                    Hide Replies (29)
                    • nancyj over 2 years ago
                      • JulienB over 2 years ago
                        If you made an attempt to see my argument for It's contents you would see the video was made by the non-profit nutrition education organisation Nutritionfacts.org. It's like we're having two separate discussions.
                        Hide Replies (15)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          Michael Greger is a vegan activist and creator of NutritionFacts.org. Michael Greger makes a ton of DVD’s and books spouting the same biased claims he makes on his website. He claims that he does not make a dime from his works, and that all proceeds go to charity… well… he isn’t wrong.Nutritionfacts.org is a 501(c)3 charity, and that is the charity that proceeds go to. These proceeds help Greger talk more about his claims, write more vegan books, and make more vegan videos, which in turn, makes more money for his own charity. I am sure his contribution to his own charity gives him a tax deduction as well,Look into these things a little more deeply.
                          Hide Replies (14)
                          • JulienB over 2 years ago
                            I already knew donations to his website help his website grow. That's the whole point of it. You're really putting spin on this by calling him an activist and painting all his material as biased. What evidence do you have of his bias? He says if there was any proof whatsoever that processed foods and animal products were good for you, he'd be making videos touting them. The problem is there isn't any proof. He supports a plant based diet, which is very sensible. He founded his site to help people because he saw too few doctors helping people prevent and treat chronic illnesses. He saw his grandmother improve from a 6 month death sentence to living another 30 years due to Nathan Pritikin's help.
                            Hide Replies (6)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              "non-profit nutrition education organisation Nutritionfacts.org" You're the one trying to paint him as unbiased, I'm simply pointing out his agenda and yes my friend that makes him bias.Do you know what his website was called before Nutirion Facts?.....Take a guess…hmmm ‘Vegan Research Institute’! Well he mentions in a post (https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-much-cancer-does-lunch-meat-cause/) that the WHO report claiming the carcinogenic effects includes chicken and turkey… it doesn’t (http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/) Over 110 studies prove that Sucralose is safe for consumption. Aspertame is the same, with over 100 studies showing that it is safe for consumption. Greger thinks otherwise because… a few cherrypicked studies. He actually claims Sucralose, found in Splenda, is bad for you, as he claims: “Harmful, based primarily on the role it may play as a migraine trigger.”Let’s see where this claim even comes from. He links 4 sources for his video, one links to a general review of sweeteners, which claims them to be healthy. That study refers to a case study… of one woman who was already suffering from severe migraines being controlled by hormones.Another example, one study Greger cites as showing that "plant-based" diets protect against kidney failure actually indicates that low-fat dairy products are also protective. The devil is in the details, but Greger is in the business of making overly broad statements that fit his narrative.Dr. Harriet Hall summarizes Greger’s formula rather well:"These videos tend to fall into an easily recognizable pattern. They feature a charismatic scientist with an agenda who makes sweeping statements that go beyond the evidence, makes unwarranted assumptions about the meaning of studies, and omits any reference to contradictory evidence."And she also calls out Greger’s laughable rhetoric:"[Greger] compares raw meat to hand grenades, because of bacterial contamination. If you don’t handle them safely, it’s like pulling the pin. Are we selling hand grenades in grocery stores? This is a ridiculous comparison, and it ignores the fact that plant-based foods can be a source of contamination too."Another interesting point. A recent study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that leafy green vegetables are the number one source of food poisoning. (source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-says-leafy-greens-top-food-poisoning-source-150043222.html) About half of food poisonings are attributable to produce. Somehow, I can’t find this news on the “Nutrition Facts” blog. Shocking! So is it bias...you bet it is!
                              Hide Replies (5)
                              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                                Removed by moderator.
                              • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                                Physicians Committee For Responsible Medicine, a group of over 12,000 American medical doctors, who promote a plant based diet for good health. Also Dr. Fuhrman M.D., who is believed to be, the single most reliable source of nutritional and medical information relating to a plant based diet. He approaches the issue from a health perspective and not from the perspective of animal ethics. www.Dr.Fuhrman.com
                                Hide Replies (3)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  Removed by moderator.
                                • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                                  I do not share in your opinion of Dr. Fuhrman M.D. Plant based diets can include meat unless this is just a cute way of saying vegan or vegetarian. If he wasn't biased then he would see their are benefits to eating meat as well.
                                  Hide reply (1)
                                  • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                                    The point is he believes we are better off health wise, not consuming animal products. It is not because he necessarily has compassion for animals.
                          • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                            From personal experience...not a cold or a flu in 6 years after turning vegan...and all around me especially during the winter season all my co-workers got a cold or flu. My husband as well. We eat a variety in our diet, there are a lot of unhealthy vegans out there too....but if you eat a lot of variety and preferably in season, it's the best diet out there for yourself and the planet. There are bad apples out there in every field, I don't believe everything I read including vegan articles, but what I do know personally...I've never felt better in my life than on a vegan diet. And not just physically, but also emotionally and mentally... my brain seems sharper than ever as well. I'm vegan for the animals, planet and humans...I want my nephews/nieces to have a sustainable future and right now it's not looking good for them.
                            Hide Replies (2)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              Ever hear of the placebo effect?
                              Hide reply (1)
                              • Mia A over 2 years ago
                                For 6 years?
                          • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
                            Yes, and from one of your posts, you mentioned you were in the dairy industry all your life and your livelihood and investment also makes money (or loses money) based on the viability of the dairy industry. So that makes you impartial does it?
                            Hide Replies (3)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              You made assumptions my friend, let me know where I said I make money from dairy, I have said nothing of the sort.
                              Hide Replies (2)
                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                You implied that you make money from the industry through your involvement and personal relations in the dairy industry.
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  I'm sorry you made the incorrect inference. But again quote me. I'll wait.
                      • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                        you are trying to refute actual studies with a article from a BLOG and call them amateurs ?
                        Hide Replies (7)
                        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                          I have plenty of peer reviewed studies, care to share any to support your arguments?
                          Hide Replies (6)
                          • nzouri over 2 years ago
                            The studies you linked here are sponsored by the dairy industry. They are valuable as industry advertising and not as something we should take in consideration when deciding what to eat. We need a food guide that is not influenced by industry lobby groups.
                            Hide Replies (5)
                            • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                              So what were the flaws in those studies, again study sponsors are not grounds to dismiss the studies, you need evidence. "The sponsors had no role in design and conduct of the meta-analyses, data collection and analysis, interpretation of the data, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscripts"
                              Hide Replies (4)
                              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                                If it is a bought research, is it skewed.
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  Yikes.
                              • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                                Show me ONE single study sponsored by the dairy industry that has shown negative side effects of consuming milk .... there is NONE, ever wonder why is that ?!?
                                Hide reply (1)
                                • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
                                  Because there is none, show me one nice thing vegans have said about dairy....or does that only work one way?
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      HDL (good cholesterol) increases when you eat eggs. Total cholesterol has been established as being an irrelevant marker of heat disease. The video is by a biased vegan that has not kept up on research preferring to use 20 yr old or more data that cholesterol was bad as it was being demonized by the AHA and Statin drug companies running the AHA, not to mention vegans who think they have the right to run everyone else's life. No one is dying from eating eggs. The American Heart Association now says "Eggs are a good source of protein and other nutrients and can be part of a healthy dietary pattern. Animal products, including eggs, contain saturated fat, which can raise blood cholesterol. Too much bad (LDL) cholesterol in the blood can contribute to formation of plaque and narrowing of the arteries. All the saturated fat is in the yolk. Because egg yolks contain saturated fat, it may be appropriate for people who need to reduce LDL-cholesterol to reduce intake of egg yolks." Aha! So the link is to saturated fat and where do they get the idea that saturated fat is bad when there are 7 studies showing that saturated fat is not harmful and 2 studies that it is possibly harmful and all 28 countries (not just the 7 he used that supported his hypothesis) in Ancel Keys study are used show there is no correlation between saturated fat and heart disease.
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      Perhaps listen to a real doctor using today's science talk about eggs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hgOHzFb1Xg
                      Hide reply (1)
                      • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                        Dr. Joel Fuhrman, M.D. Believed to be the single most reliable source of nutritional and medical information relating to a plant based diet. He approaches the issue from a health perspective and not from the perspective of animal ethics. www.DrFuhmann.com
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      The problem being that cholesterol is not an accurate marker for CVD. As many people with LOW LDL have heart attacks as those with high LDL. Statin drug manufacturers have made billions lowering cholesterol and not improving all cause mortality.
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    Tell that to the millions of male baby chicks that are gassed or grinded up alive and then probably given back as feed to the mother chickens that laid the eggs....look at the industry and tell me how eggs are the perfect food? Try a Tofu scramble, it's delicious and it tastes just like scrambled eggs. Many recipes on the internet.
                  • Insight over 2 years ago
                    Nancyj: thank you! This whole option of to 'agree' or 'disagree' is nonsense- it's not about agreement. You have stated a fact. The scientific evidence has proven that dietary cholesterol does not affect intrinsically produced cholesterol (ie. produced from our own liver). This information was hidden for decades, (hence the low-fat, low-cholesterol movement) and was recently revealed. So all those who 'disagree', go do some reading...of scientific journals-not fear-mongerers. PS. Cholesterol is essential for life (hormones, cell membranes, etc.), that's why we make our own, folks!
                    Hide Replies (4)
                    • JulienB over 2 years ago
                      Chilesterol shoots up after ameal, you know that right? It'll go back to normal after 7 hours. People on a Western diet pummel their arteries at each meal.
                      Hide Replies (2)
                      • Insight over 2 years ago
                        NO, dietary cholesterol does not "pummel" the arteries. Such a sensational statement! Of course our blood concentrations go up after a meal; it's called absorption. Please don't make scientific statements if you don't know the science. PS. the structures of the majority of cell membranes in the body include cholesterol. Our hormones are derived from cholesterol also. We need it.
                        Hide reply (1)
                        • JulienB over 2 years ago
                          You are being quite hostile. The fact of the matter is blood cholesterol increases significantly after a meal high in cholesterol. We spend much of our day in an after meal state. Meanwhile the studies you're so fond of measure people's fasting cholesterol. They use a cross section of a population, ask them about their diet and measure their fasting cholesterol. The issue with that is that while fasting cholesterol may increase slightly due to a western diet, dna also plays a major role, so statistically, we can't show an increase in fasting cholesterol in cross sectional studies. But with dietary intervention studies, scientists have already shown that fasting cholesterol levels increase.
                    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                      "that's why we make our own" ... and don't need to consume it"Cholesterol is essential for life" .... guess how gorillas, apes and other plant eating animals survive without eating it and don't get atherosclerosis.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/"Atherosclerosis affects only herbivores. Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can be saturated with fat and cholesterol, and atherosclerotic plaques do not develop"
                  • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                    I don't know where you get your info from, but there is over 60 years worth of research showing that eggs DO raise your cholesterol and DO raise your risk of early death from many causes.Here are studies that controlled what people ate and put the on and off eggs and measured their cholesterol levels.Effects of dietary cholesterol on serum cholesterol: a meta-analysis and review (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/55/6/1060.abstract)Egg yolk consumption and carotid plaque (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22882905)Effects of dietary cholesterol on the regulation of total body cholesterol in man (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5108133)
                • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                  HDL cholesterol is exactly what you want and is what you get when you eat eggs. Not all cholesterol is the same.
                  Hide Replies (3)
                  • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                    It's called a chicken's period...eggs.
                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                    So eggs are produced by chicken raised in tiny cages for their whole productive lives. Conditions so stressful that the chickens are debeaked as to not pick other chickens in the same tight cages. Chickens also spend their days in dark halls, sometimes on top on the dead carcasses of chickens who succumb to the conditions. Chickens are fed a cocktail of antibiotics to prevent diseases caused by the stressful conditions. How can the eggs produced be healthy? The stress hormones in these chickens must be going through the roof. Stress hormones that sure to be passed down in the eggs. So ultimately an egg is a deadly combination of fat, cholesterol and stress hormones.
                    Hide reply (1)
                    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                      Here we go defending the chickens of the world! This discussion is about nutrition so you throw in that the chickens must be stressed so we're all getting stressed because of chicken stress? The only ones that are stressed are people stressing about chicken stress which directly increases cortisol secretion and does all kinds of bad things. Best thing then is to get over being stressed about chickens.
                • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                  "Meat may be a great source of amino acids, or a source of B12"Neither plants nor animals produce B12, it is produced by soil bacterial and farmed animals are just as deficient as humans and farmers inject them with B12 and give them foods fortified with B12, that is how most of us get our B12, but still around 40% of people in the western world are low on B12, so clearly that is not the solution and we must supplement, regardless if you are vegan or a meat eater.
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • maureen boag over 2 years ago
                    I have been vegan for over 5 years. I don't take B12, vitamins or any supplements.
              • JulienB over 2 years ago
                How about every single plant food? There's no such thing as an incomplete protein besides animal gelatin. Watch this https://youtu.be/Fhyfa48bK28 No need to eat complimentary proteins together to make up for their shortcomings.
                Hide Replies (2)
                • ali171 over 2 years ago
                  You don't need to combine or carefully plan protein content in a plant based diet. As long as you eat a good variety you cover your bases. It is not necessary to get all amino acids at the same time. That idea came out of a disproven fad from the 80's. The body does have some storage capacity.
                  Hide reply (1)
                  • JulienB over 2 years ago
                    Not disagreeing, just clarifying: I just talked about the protein combining myth. You get ALL your amino acids regardless, just a different proportion. It may actually be bad to get protein with similar amino acid profile (ie high bioavailability) https://youtu.be/A9kRDxjpwPk
              • Esther over 2 years ago
                To answer your question: Quinoa and soy beans are just two examples. And from my reading, most plants do contain all essential amino acids, just not in the ideal proportions. So repeating what someone else said, anyone eating the recommended number of calories for their frame in a reasonably varied diet will get a balanced spread of the essential macronutrients including amino acids.
              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                Most whole grains do not contain the amino acid lysine, or contain very little lysine. Quinoa, however, supplies this amino acid along with the other eight essential amino acids in amounts that are balanced well for the needs of humans. Quinoa also has a relatively high amount of protein for a grain at 13.8 percent protein. Quinoa also provides you with more copper, fiber, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, potassium and zinc and less sodium than corn, wheat or barley. Quinoa is also low in gluten, so even those with celiac disease can enjoy it.
                Hide Replies (3)
                • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                  It also has an Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio of 10:1. 25% carbohydrates to 4% protein.
                  Hide Replies (2)
                  • nzouri over 2 years ago
                    The optimal Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio is 1:1. That is obtained from plants only. All animal foods have an imbalanced ratio: Red meat for example has something like 200:1.
                    Hide reply (1)
              • ckadlec over 2 years ago
                Quinoa.
              • nzouri over 2 years ago
                Red meat is classified as carcinogenic by WHO: http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/
          • megibun over 2 years ago
            be careful - you may get an amino acid deficiency ;) nope... you won't. it's actually impossible if you are eating enough calories and more than just one plant food
            Hide reply (1)
            • JulienB over 2 years ago
              Protein deficiency doesn't happen in people eating enough throughout the day. It only happens when people are subjected to starvation!
          • Karimsamra over 2 years ago
            That myth sounds logical and that's what makes it so popular. That is not correct. Plants have all the protein u need, without the baggage of animal foods and is very easy to get complete proteins from a plant based diet. Btw edemame beens contain complete proteins. And as long as you eat enough calories, a minimally varied plant based based diet will give u all the protein u need.
          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
            You are talking about a myth that was created in the late 70s by someone that was not a scientists and she retracted her claim in the revised version of the book in the 80s after much scrutiny from the science community, but the myth resists till this day in popular belief and even in the science community.The Myth About ‘Incomplete’ Plant-Based Protein. (http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/busted-the-myth-about-incomplete-plant-based-protein/ )
          • ckadlec over 2 years ago
            Does anybody not realize the Earth is in a crisis with Global Warming? And animal agriculture is at the top of the list for the cause? If we continue with this "some" meat or "some" diary...for 7 billion people on Earth...our NEAR future is not looking so good. Wildfires are off to a great early start...last year it was Alberta (fires have appeared in Banff) and now BC...it's happening here in Canada...and all the floods in Eastern Canada, Quebec...does it have to be your own home to be destroyed to take a serious look at what is happening. It starts on your plate. We all need to change and realize the serious threat. And there is a starvation crisis in Africa...and we Westerners grow crops to feed 160 billion animals? And one more thing, the Amazon forest is back at deforestation full throttle...please read this link. http://www.foxnews.com/science/2017/02/16/brazil-lost-almost-one-third-its-amazon-rain-forest-in-12-months-agency-says.html
      • Michette over 2 years ago
        Look up Dr. Jason's Fung on YouTube. Fascinating.
        Hide Replies (6)
        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
          look up ketosis and constipationlook up ketosis and headacheslook up ketosis and bad breathlook up ketosis and kidney damagelook up ketosis and atherosclerosislook up ketosis and thirstlook up ketosis and fatiguelook up ketosis and anxietylook up ketosis and chills
          Hide Replies (5)
      • sydney over 2 years ago
        Watch....What the Health....
      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
        The China study is nutritiously flawed.
      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
        Forks over Knives is vegan propaganda at it's worst. You really need to study the science behind carbohydrate reduction / increase in fat. The "China Study' is also vegan propaganda. China is experience an increase in type 2 diabetes at an alarming rate (higher than North America) because of increased processed food (sugar and rapidly digestible carbohydrates) consumption. Carbohydrates is the real problem when it comes to type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome and coronary heart disease due to abnormal inflammation. It is also responsible for increased LDL and particle count. Switch to a high fat, moderate protein and very low carbohydrate diet and triglycerides drop like a rock, HDL increases and LDL moderates. This is all based on available scientific experimentation over more than 50 years. Big food and the American Heart Association who is controlled by big food has fed us a deadly diet of high carbohydrates since the 70's and the increasing rates of coronary heart disease, obesity and type 2 diabetes are the result.
        Hide Replies (8)
        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
          That is utter bull, sugar consumption in China has seen very little increase in comparison to fat and animal protein consumption. But that does not make any sense to your agenda and it is why you won't post any references to your claims, but here let me help you. This is sugar consumption (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M9_Txlt4mnI/Um-vTJmu1-I/AAAAAAAAERc/YqPJDuR1eK0/s1600/sugar+5.jpg) China consumes more than 5 times less sugar than USA yet it now has similar diabetes profile with more than 50% being pre-diabetic. But guess what trends are the same in China ? FAT and animal food consumption is skyrocketing, not sugar. (http://www.earth-policy.org/images/uploads/graphs_tables/update102_uschinameat.PNG)
          Hide Replies (3)
          • reitsmad over 2 years ago
            They are consuming significantly more carbohydrates now. You are using vegan data.
            Hide Replies (2)
            • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
            • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
              there is no such thing as vegan data, there is statistics that show that their consumption of carbs has NOT changed significantly, but meat, fat, oils and other animal foods HAS changed significantly (links provided above)
        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
          How about you watch this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa7Ob19d5SEThis video is about an Open Heart Surgeon who is 102 years young and is vegan for over 50 years...so if he can be vegan..so can the rest of us (especially for global warming)...it's very inspirational to be honest...and his mind, so sharp...amazing! Remember 102 years old! I live by a living example vs. studies...and this man is truly inspirational.
          Hide Replies (2)
          • reitsmad over 2 years ago
            Meat eaters are the cause of global warming?
            Hide reply (1)
            • maureen boag over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
          And your response is Food Industry propaganda.
    • sedmacdonald over 2 years ago
      I disagree with your points on dairy and red meats, there is no reason for them to recommend dairy as it is completely unnecessary in our diets. The nutrients obtained from drinking dairy can be obtained from plant based sources that are much healthier and not linked to life threatening diseases that dairy has been linked to. Also it's nonsense to recommend more red meats in any diet firstly considering that people already eat too much of it, secondly because of it's environmental impact which is HUGE, and lastly because like dairy products red meats don't give you any benefits that one cannot get from plant sources without the added saturated fat, and cholesterol.
      Hide Replies (2)
      • HHIhealtheducator over 2 years ago
        In terms of meat consumption, our society is also wrapped up in the thought that chicken and fish are the healthiest, which is entirely false. When looking at what these foods cause in the gut, and the connection to the brain, it is quite alarming. < Documentaries: What The Health, Forks Over Knives, Fat Sick and Nearly Dead > < Dr. Brian Clement has a line of books I highly recommend that are available online >.
        Hide reply (1)
        • JulienB over 2 years ago
          Chicken... Has more cholesterol than red meat!
    • alexchez over 2 years ago
      No. On a day like Saturday you're encouraging a diet with more cholesterol than you should consume in a day, not to mention saturated fat. It's like these recommendations are trying to give people heart disease. Full fat dairy is not healthy and neither is red meat.
    • Francois over 2 years ago
      This document is based on falsified research on saturated fats. The older non industry studies demonstrated and this has been repeatedly proven that saturated and trans fats lead to insuln resistance which leads to diabetes, obesity, heart attack, stroke and dementia. The older studies showed an increase in cholesterol when individuals were given saturated fats which was so consistent and predictable that they even established an equation which could precisely predict cholesterol change vs amount of animal/saturated fats given. The y axis was increase in cholesterol while the x axis was amount of grams of fat. The recent 20 years of falsified studies use the fact that even though we all have similar biology, we have different genetics. Therefore, by changing the y axis from increase in cholesterol to absolute cholesterol you can bury the increase in genetic variability thus making the p value non significant i.e a difference on 10 in increase for all would mean nothing when the variability is 200 between individuals, at least statistically, while clinically it does. The above document is either from industry financed MD or that do not look at research to put it mildly.
      Hide Replies (6)
      • JulienB over 2 years ago
        Ah yes the famous Heggstead equation.
      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
        Increased fat consumption (including saturated fat) and decreased carbohydrates consumption decreases triglycerides and increases HDL. These are both good things. This is has been consistently measured. My own N=1 proves that as well. As a result risk of CHD is significantly reduces.
        Hide Replies (4)
        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
          Yes, and so does chemotherapy.
          Hide Replies (3)
          • reitsmad over 2 years ago
            I don't understand your point? I haven't gotten sick eating a low carbohydrate / high fat / moderate protein diet and am healthier than ever at normal weight.
            Hide Replies (2)
            • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
              Yes, not yet. Just give it some time.
              Hide reply (1)
              • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                I know people that have been eating low carb / high fat / moderate protein for more than 5 years and continue to have great health and negative markers for CVD, reversed IBS, type 2 diabetes / pre-diabetes as well as other ailments. My 9 months on this WOE has astounded my physician in how my health has improved.
    • Karimsamra over 2 years ago
      Promote a low carb diet? Remove cap on saturated fats?? Did i miss something or is this industry influence again?It is obvious that sound unbiased evidence is clearly pointing to a whole foods plant based diet as the optimal one for humans. Its the ONLY nutritional principal that actually reverses heart disease, type 2 diabetes and certain cancers. It should be the default diet.
      Hide Replies (6)
      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
        This book I recently read: The Whole Foods Diet by John Mackey and Alona Pulde (April 2017, so recent) is fantastic....I always thought olive oil and coconut oil was good for you, it's not. It's a processed food and very high in dense calories. 2 Tbsps of olive oil has 245 calories. This book talks about eating real whole foods and you can eat as much as you want, it's not a diet, it's a life style change. I ditched all oils out of my kitchen and again I feel even better and I'm vegan too boot! But then the heart and stroke foundation has their seal of approval on some oils and margarines? Again processed foods.
      • Marie J over 2 years ago
        Here's as 'unbiased' as it gets. I did the whole tofu, low fat, low protein life and, mush to my surprise, I got sick! it wasn't until I adopted a paleo/low carb life style that I started to feel better and get my health back. There may be plenty of studies that point to a vegan life style being the healthiest but there are also plenty of unbiased science pointing in other directions. The problem with most people is that they think their way is the only way and the only diet to achieve health. Recently. The Canadian blood services had to lengthen the time for women to be eligible for blood donation as too many have low iron. I am not one! When I went to their site, they recommend red meat for iron. I get plenty :)
        Hide Replies (3)
        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
          Here is as "ancdotal" as it gets would have been a better intro sentence. Iron deficiency rates are the same in plant eaters as they are in meat eaters, so that recommendation is flawed and based on non scientific (biased) personal opinion. Besides the fact that red meat has been classified as a probable carcinogen by WHO and that many western diseases are tied to it's consumption, it is increasingly being shown how detrimental it is to the planet's environment and particularly climate chance. It would have to be a very biased and anecdotal recommendation to push the paleo/low carb diet when it was rated as one of the worst and least scientifically proven diets ever studied, only the cookie diet was worse, that that is not a diet, it is a joke.Paleo diet ranks last on 'best diets' list (http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/health/best-diets-ranked/)
        • Dale Williams over 2 years ago
          Thanks for your comments Marie. I'm with you!
        • ckadlec over 2 years ago
          just watch this amazing 102 year old vegan heart surgeon...and inspiration for all of us...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa7Ob19d5SEJust an FYI...my veganism is not about diet...it's also about the planet....love...
      • reitsmad over 2 years ago
        Excuse me? My markers were all reversed - 100% measured. You may have benefit on your diet but the low carb / high fat diet I am on puts me off the chart for extending my life according to all current CVD markers.
    • JuliaKostin over 2 years ago
      Red meat should be encouraged? Are you kidding? The World Cancer Research Fund advises avoiding red meat. The World Health Organization has label it as a probably carcinogen. Furthermore, many studies have found that red meat consumption increases risk for cancer and disease:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4698595/ http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691516301144http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169500201002276https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121650/One excerpt from the last link: "The researchers also found that increasing intakes of red meat were significantly associated with elevated risks of 20%–60% for cancers of the esophagus, liver, and lung."Oh, I forgot. Here are some articles that posits that regular consumption of red meat is healthy:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030917401400196Xhttp://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174009002514But wait, they were both published in a journal called "Meat Science" ...hmm, seems trustworthy and totally unbiased eh? I wonder who funds that one.
      Hide reply (1)
      • Mia A over 2 years ago
        Right you are!
    • Marie J over 2 years ago
      This was freaking awesome! Thanks for posting :)
    • lauelibre over 2 years ago
      Alright, what industry funded this study...meat, dairy, or both? I agree with focussing on whole foods and taking the focus away from calories, but thats where I stop.
      Hide Replies (3)
      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
        Where else should these studies get their funding? Just because they received funding doesn't mean the numbers have been skewed.
        Hide Replies (2)
        • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
          They should get their funding from the same reputable sources as everyone else who isn't funded by the Food Industry.
          Hide reply (1)
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            The studies are largely a result of false allegations and misinformation perpetrated by vegan activists and animal rights propaganda. Do you remember that campaign by PETA 7-8 yrs ago where they proclaimed dairy causes autism? Because of these wild claims dairy needed some relevant and current research to debunk much of this since people started believing that nonsense. The way research works is an interested party/organization poses a research question (ex. Does consuming milk lead to disease A?) Then they hire actual researchers to conduct the study and publish the results. Now the only ones interested in that type or research is the dairy industry, the Carrot producers of America probably wouldn't want to study dairy because the research question is not applicable to them. This is also the case for space exploration, Canadian dairy farmers won't sponsor a study to see the long term effects of space exploration (radiation etc.) but guess who is interested..NASA, therefore, they pay for the research to be done. However, with your logic NASA studies involving anything space related would be invalid because they have interest in continued space funding.
    • cnote over 2 years ago
      Great advice from these docs. They could really just make this the food guide. Milk really needs to be down played, but it is far from the worst thing.Also, the phrase plant-based grosses me out. Eat plants, not plant-based stuff.
      Hide reply (1)
      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
        Removed by moderator.
    • Michette over 2 years ago
      Yes. These are knowledgable physicians. Notable is Dr.Jason Fung of Toronto. Eating low carb/ high fat, intermitttent fasting and ketogenic diets are SAVING LIVES and CURING chronic disease. I struggled with obesity and since learning this way of eating I am a normal healthy weight and BMI. Even after losing 120+ pounds, I don't need skin removal surgery, I look and feel younger, I am able to exercise, have energy, sleep well, have healthy blood results and vitamin levels. I have control over my health. Refined foods, carbohydrates, sugar over feeding is killing us. Please consider the recommendations in this letter.
      Hide reply (1)
      • Dale Williams over 2 years ago
        Great post Michette! My experience with living a LCHF lifestyle over the past year is very similar to yours. Cheers!
    • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
      Given that red meat is a World Health Organization Group 2A carcinogen with links to colorectal cancer, no I do not agree with the recommendations in this bizarre letter.
    • judynew over 2 years ago
      While everyone is entitled to their opinion and to say what they believe, people tend to attach importance to what they hear from doctors and, as doctors, you should be more careful with your words. I am surprised, not that a doctor could write this, but that quite so many doctors would take the time to sign it.
      Hide Replies (2)
      • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
        I wonder if all the doctors on that list know that their name is on it.
      • ckadlec over 2 years ago
        This man's opinion matters, a Dr. open heart surgery...he is 102 years old..vegan for over 50 years..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa7Ob19d5SE
    • frankh over 2 years ago
      It's about time!
    • amandajbaker over 2 years ago
      This is great. Fat has been demonized for so long and the science doesn't support it. Canada's Food Guide servings of meat are far smaller than what a lot of people eat, meaning the amount of fat from meats will be reduced just by following serving size guidelines. Foods with lower fat contents include a LOT of processed foods which likely do more harm than good with additives. Fat takes longer to process, so it helps keep you fuller longer - it can be an important part of managing hunger.
    • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
      It sounds like all these doctors who signed the letter (if they truly did) have not been following evidence based research for the past 50 years. You state in the letter "guidelines have not been based on the best and most current science, and significant change is needed" yet the recommendations that follow sound like they were designed by the dairy, meat and egg industry standpoint and don't differ much from the old guidelines. From points of change:1. "low-fat diet is no longer supported, and can worsen heart-disease risk factors"A: wrong, Western diets have never been low-fat, on average we consumed 25-35% fat, that is NOT low.2. "Be created without influence from the food industry"A: I would dig to see who "helped" you create the recommendations here. Sure sounds like the dairy industry. You claim that we need not consume processed foods, yet this paper is filled with cheese, yogurt and cream all over it ... these are processed foods, with unnatural amounts of fat, cholesterol and salt and sugar in them. And totally ignoring the fact that around 3/4 of all world adults are lactose intolerant."Approximately 70% of African Americans, 90% of Asian Americans, 53% of Mexican Americans, and 74% of Native Americans were lactose intolerant"http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/what-is-lactose-intolerance3. "Eliminate caps on saturated fats"A: That is horrible HORRIBLE advice when we have studies that showed how dangerous saturated fats are for human health and we today have countries that removed and banned trans fats and recommend lowering saturated fats from their food production and they have seen a decrease in disease rates.Trans Fat Bans Reduce Heart Disease Deaths: Studyhttp://time.com/4025570/denmark-trans-fat-banTolerable upper intake levels for trans fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol (ZERO)https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21521229 "The IOM did not set ULs for trans fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol because any intake level above 0% of energy increased LDL cholesterol concentration and these three food components are unavoidable in ordinary diets. "4. "not from artificially fortified refined grains" A: Whole Grains are health promoting foods that lower various diseases and are staple foods of majority of the worldGluten-free diet is not recommended for people without celiac diseasehttp://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j21355. "Promote low-carb diets as at least one safe and effective"A: It might be effective, BUT it is NOT safe and it is NOT sustainable for long term and is detrimental for cardiovascular disease, it hardens and narrows the arteries, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence and meta-analysis done on this subject. You are trading obesity for heart disease ... that is NOT SAFE!Here is a Meta-Analysis of these low-carb diets that show many studies havign a trend in increased overall mortality in people who follow these diets: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247154610_Low-carbohydrate_diets_impair_flow-mediated_dilatation_Evidence_from_a_systematic_review_and_meta-analysisHere is what happens to people with existing heart disease that go Low-Carb:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317Here is what these diets do in healthy people:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11108325Here is what happens to overall mortality in Low-Carbers:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/233728096. "Offer a true range of diets that respond to the diverse nutritional needs of our population"A: Doctors and scientists should provide evidence based recommendations, NOT variety, we live in a western world that already has an overabundance of everything, we don't need more, we need less. There are diets proven in numerous studies to help lower disease in study populations, scientists should further investigate what parts of those diets are health promoting and what parts are not health promoting and base their recommendations on that.7. "Recognize the controversy on salt and cease the blanket "lower is better”recommendation"A: There is no controversy, salt intake is exaggerated in western diets and we should lower it in the general population and especially in groups that are prone to disease related to high salt intake.8 . "Stop using any language suggesting that sustainable weight control can simply bemanaged by creating a caloric deficit"A: Yes, start promoting foods that not only lower body weight but also promote general health and those foods are plant based whole foods, NOT animal based products and not avoidance of grains.9. "Cease its advice to replace saturated fats with polyunsaturated vegetable oils to prevent cardiovascular disease" A: Trans fats are the worst and saturated fats (animal products) come in the second place and studies showed that replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats (plant based) is beneficial in lowering disease risk. This is NOT optimal, but it is the right recommendation based on science. But you want to clump together the #1 offender with the #3 offender and want to let #2 offender free ... I wonder who's interest is that ? we can see in the next point I guess.Harvard Medical School: The truth about fatshttp://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good10. "Stop steering people away from nutritious whole foods, such as whole-fat dairy andregular red meat "A: Both meat and dairy are linked to numerous diseases and they are both over-consumed in the Western world. The healthiest people on planet Earth are those that consume the least amount of animal products (meat, milk, eggs) and this was shown by National Geographic in their Blue Zones Project (www.BlueZones.com) 11. Include a cap on added sugar, in accordance with the updated WHO guidelines, ideallyno greater than 5% of total calories. A: Wow, one point take makes some sense, but needs to be clarified that added sugar = processed sugar, not sugar found in whole foods like fruits, legumes and other plants.12. "If such data is not available, the Guidelines should remain silent." Yet this whole list of recommendations is based on cherry picked studies and not very robust studies."Appendix B (new Brazilian food guide)"- Please note since you are referencing it, they make point of "mainly of plant origin" in point #1, but your recommendations seem to put emphasis on animal products when you start talking about "real-foods" you put: "*Eggs, *sardines, *mackerel, *salmon, *beef, *chicken (with skin), *lamb, *pork, *liver, *kidney, *heart, avocados, olives, *full-fat cheese, *full-fat yoghurt, *cream, almonds, macadamia nuts, brazil nuts, walnuts" ahead of much healthier plant based sources of protein.
      Hide reply (1)
      • Mia A over 2 years ago
        Well said. I have the same thoughts on this.
    • MargotFreitag over 2 years ago
      Given that doctors get little if any real nutrition training in med school it is not surprising that they are suggesting things like "low carb diets" as well as red meat and diary intake in this letter. All we really need to do is take a look at the Blue Zones, the places in the world where people live the longest and healthiest lives, and are fully active and able-bodied beyond their 100th year of life. These people do not suffer from obesity or any of the chronic diseases that take most of our loved ones too soon. They eat a whole foods, plant-based diet, which is a high carbohydrate diet, rich in whole grains, fruits, vegetables and legumes. The Blue Zone group closest to us and still thriving today, are the 7th Day Adventists in Loma Linda California, who are vegan. Some of these folks eat fish on occasion. Overall, the Centenarians in all of the Blue Zone groups combined eat a plant-based diet rich in grains, legumes, fruits and veggies, and eat animal foods, if at all, as a condiment: on average, three to five ounces three to five times a month. The notion that we need to consume dairy products no longer hold weight. We now know that dairy does not promote bone health (unless you look at the studies funded by the diary industry), and is in fact implicated in bone loss and osteoporosis, autoimmune diseases, heart disease, diabetes, Chron's (likely linked to mycobacterium paratuberculosis, causing Johne's disease, or Chron's, in cows) which contaminates all cow milk, as well as leukaemia, due to bovine leukaemia virus, (looks like the damaged virus post pasteurization may be even more dangerous), not to mention things like asthma, allergies, constipation and anemia. No thanks. Love raising healthy, intelligent, athletic children and helping so many people heal their bodies with a whole foods, plant-based diet. Margot Freitag
    • Mia A over 2 years ago
      there are some recommendations here that conflict with the nutritional info/advice given by reputable sources such as Mayo Clinic, U of SC (Berkley), Centre for Science in the Public Interest, and the like. For example, all these sources advise us to eat low fat dairy and very little red meat, if any at all. In short, we are advised to reduce saturated fat and to increase polyunsaturated fats, and especially omega 3 fatty acids. We are also advised to reduce salt intake. This advice is different than what this group of Canadian physicians recommends. Their recommendations here are very confusing to regular Canadians who are looking to health experts for consistency. If research results vary so much among the experts, how can a lay person make an informed decision?
      Hide reply (1)
      • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
        These Canadian Physicians comity make recommendations on not only dubious research, but on flawed presumptions and contrary to epidemiological evidence.
    • rchavoshi over 2 years ago
      Agree! It was long overdue!
    • William over 2 years ago
      The advice of these concerned physicians stands completely contrary to proposed guidelines. They recommend giving up low-fat diets, remove caps for saturated fat, and promote eating saturated fat over polyunsaturated vegetable oils to prevent heart disease! How could the guidelines and the Canadian Heart and Stroke Foundation get it so wrong? I cannot agree with their stand except where they include the WHO guidelines, Canadian guidelines should fall within those of the World Health Organisation.
    • nickarrizza over 2 years ago
      These recommendations are toxic to the general population and should NOT be heeded! An exhaustive review of why a vegan diet (based on a whole plant based diet consisting of starchy and non starchy vegetables, fruits, legumes, whole grains, limited amounts of nuts/seeds, Vitamin B12 supplementation), daily sunshine exposure, regular exercise, the elimination of all animal protein/fat sources, AND the elimination of ALL processed oils and refined foods is available in Jan Deckers 2016 review: Animal (De)liberation: Should the Consumption of Animal Products Be Banned? (Might a Vegan Diet Be Healthy, or Even Healthier?) available at: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK396513/
    • hortense over 2 years ago
      Perhaps we should contact these doctors? A doctor I spoke to recently told me she hadn't studied vitamins in medical school so therefore my information and experience on vitamins was wrong. Everything is corrupt, these days. As the song says, "They're either lying or they've been misled." By the time we are middle-aged we find our bodies failing and it is because of diet, especially because of animal 'foods'. It is a fact that vegans live ten years longer and have dramatically fewer diseases and during that long, disease-free, sex-filled life, we do so much less damage and harm. It has become a question of our very survival as a species, as a planet. Animal agriculture causes 51% of climate change. This supposed 'food' is highly addictive as well as being toxic, cruel and suicidal. The next time you step over that drunk asleep on the sidewalk, realize you have an addiction much more damaging, much crueler. Remember what you self-righteously tell him, "The first step to quitting an addiction is admitting you have an addiction.". I wish you all the Creator's help in recovery, I am sure you can see His awful grace in the fact that your blind cruelty is destroying this world and so very much more. With true best wishes, Hortense
    • DanielleAW over 2 years ago
      Physicians are not scientists, lol. That's cute though.
    • Rickcouture over 2 years ago
      I disagree because of these 2 points: 5. Promote low-carb diets as at least one safe and effective intervention for peoplestruggling with obesity, diabetes, and heart disease (10,11,13,21,27,34).10. Stop steering people away from nutritious whole foods, such as whole-fat dairy andregular red meat (18,34).This makes you sound like a bunch of Atkins fans....calling Milk & red meat "nutritious" whole foods...SHAME ON YOU, AS DOCTORS YOU SHOULD FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, WHICH IS COMPLETELY OPPOSED TO THIS VIEWPOINT.
    • baler over 2 years ago
      Completely agree. Presented very succinctly. Much appreciated.
  • scganguli over 2 years ago
    Effect of a Single High Fat meal on Blood Vessels-In a peer-reviewed medical publication from 1997 Dr Vogel (see reference at the end) took 10 healthy volunteers and fed them a single high-fat (sausage & egg McMuffin with hash browns) or a low fat meal. He assess blood vessel function after the meal by looking at dilation of the brachial artery 2, 3, and 4 hours after the meal.- He found statistically significant decreases in artery dilation at 2, 3, and 4 hours after the high fat meal. No changes were noted after the low fat meal.Here is a direct quote of his conclusions: “These results demonstrate that a single high-fat meal transiently impairs endothelial function. These findings identify a potential process by which a high-fat diet may be atherogenic independent of induced changes in cholesterol.”- Here is a link to the abstract: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9036757This paper clearly shows the dangers of saturated fat and directly supports guiding principle 1 where it states “Inclusion of foods that contain mostly unsaturated fat, instead of foods that contain mostly saturated fat”
    Hide reply (1)
    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
      ...more like high carbohydrate! This is the problem with all of the references you have made. These doctors who would like to call themselves scientists do not fully evaluate the findings.
  • HerbivoreVegan2018 over 2 years ago
    In closing we do NOT need Animal products to live I and millions of others are proof of that. I have blood tests to prove my iron, protein is higher on a Vegan diet than eating animal flesh... (Or drinking baby calf growth fluid.) We only get protein from animals because they eat plants. That’s where the healthy protein gets generated naturally. Watch “What the Health on Netflix. Can’t wait for the new Food Guide to come out we are going to have a Vegan Party. Once again, I am sorry Factory Farms are no longer Sustainable for 10 Billion hungry Humans……. When will US\World change theirs now?? Or TAX Meat & Dairy. It costs much much more to make than what its worth. You can feed the world with plants not animals it's simple math. Thank you #EatGreen #NoDairy #Compassion
    Hide reply (1)
    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
      Millions of years of us developing on this planet is proof we don't suffer from eating meat. In fact we thrived because of it. Growing larger in stature and larger brains.
  • sydney over 2 years ago
    Health Canada should be ONLY promoting the healthiest diet ...100% plant based. People who are too set in their ways are never going to change, but those who are open minded and able will at least have the correct information. Time for Canada to lead the world....a massive change has started and will continue away from ALL animal food products! ( yes, that means dairy, eggs, and fish also....)
    Hide Replies (38)
    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
      I'm so excited about this, so many of my family members make fun of me for being vegan, yet they are the ones with the colds/flus...joint pains, flare ups....allergies...not my husband and I. I keep telling them, go on a whole plant based diet for a month and you'll see the changes. Look at Venus Williams, the tennis star is vegan and is going to play in the Wimbledon's finals. And she is older than most tennis players!
    • Insight over 2 years ago
      OK, as someone who works in Nutritional Science, I need to jump in here. NO ONE has the ONLY healthiest diet figured out because it DOES NOT EXIST. We are all from different genetic and cultural backgrounds and have different needs. Although I am a vegetarian (for ethical reasons), I must admit some animal-eating cultures are quite healthy (i.e. country foods for Inuit) when modern society doesn't contaminate the lifestyle with Cola and potato chips. Science has given us evidence primarily regarding association, as opposed to causation, of foods/nutrients/health outcomes. Those are VERY different things. There is much nutrition in animals/animal products, who like humans, have iron-rich flesh for example. And egg protein is the gold -standard against which other proteins are compared (amino acids, bioavailability etc.). All of this grandstanding, fear-mongering and black and white 'eat that and die' mentality is ridiculous. Humans have been around for millennia, before all of this hullabaloo. Per Michael Pollan: Eat food, mostly plants, not too much. Namaste.
      Hide Replies (35)
      • tschisler over 2 years ago
        Nutritional science has been manipulated by the animal agricultural industry too much. The egg industry, as you brought it up, funds and sponsors research that supports eggs as a healthy food even though impartial scientific research clearly demonstrates eggs as harmful because of high cholesterol and saturated fat. Where do you think cows, chickens and even elephants get their muscles from - PLANTS! All the necessary building blocks for strong muscles are easily derived from plant sources. NO ANIMALS NECESSARY!
        Hide Replies (17)
        • Insight over 2 years ago
          tschisler did I not see you call yourself an MD somewhere? If so, did you not learn how to be objective and unbiased? It seems you missed all those lectures on research methodology and all the biochem and physiology labs, where, um...industry manipulators were not in the room and we watched real science in action. I would mention nutritional science labs also, but it is well known how little training MDs get in nutrition, so I that may explain your sensationalist comments. I would rather people not eat animals too, but you can't ignore the evidence that people end up B12 and iron deficient, and often osteoporotic on vegan diets. It takes work, education oh AND SUPPLEMENTS, for most people to be healthy as a vegan. My point on the Inuit diet was conveniently ignored. That's called BIAS!
          Hide Replies (16)
          • Karimsamra over 2 years ago
            Insight, your arguments about B12, iron and osteoporosis are misguided. B12 is produced by bacteria. Getting it from animals comes with too much baggage. We need a supplement because we wash our food, not because we dont eat animals. The best sources of iron are plant based. Heme iron is an oxidant and is associated with cancer. If people are deficient its because they dont eat enough dark leafy greens (and many other plant based sources like cacao, blackstrap molasses, black beans...). And i have no clue where you got the osteoporosis argument. Studies show plant eaters to have the same rate of osteoporosis than animal eaters and even HIGHER rates of osteoporosis with dairy consumption. Inuits have short life expectancy and extremely high rates of atherosclerosis. Looking around the world at the blue zones, correlation between longevity and plant based eating is clear. Your information is clearly influenced by industry "science"
            Hide Replies (6)
            • Insight over 2 years ago
              Removed by moderator.
            • Insight over 2 years ago
              Karimsamra, clearly you don't work in the current health system, or you would know what I am talking about re: deficiencies in vegans. Your information is just plain wrong and informed by extremists. Non-heme iron is very difficult to absorb, what with all the phytates etc hindering it. The same is true for plant-based calcium and incidence of osteoporosis. The amount of food needed to avoid osteopenia/osteoporosis can be greatly prohibitive. And clearly, you know nothing about the Inuit and country food. Also, no one is going to stop washing their food, and even if they did, they could not get enough Vitamin B12. A diet that requires supplementation with extraneous isolated nutrients is clearly NOT the healthiest or best. Most people live in cities and cannot grow their own food, remember. The new guide has to be both scientific AND practical.
              Hide reply (1)
              • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                If you would look at actual studies, it is not the vegan that have the most deficiencies but the opposite, the meat eaters. Vegan have the same deficiencies as meat eaters (Calcium, Iodine, B12) and eating meat clearly is NOT protective against B12 deficiency as 40% in the general population is low in B12 after the animals they eat have been injected with B12 shots and fed B12 fortified foods (instead of people taking B12 directly) and on top Meat eaters have added defficencies on top: Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Folate, Fiber and Magnesium !!!
            • Jane Stringer over 2 years ago
              I have to wonder what type of "science" influences your information.
              Hide Replies (2)
              • Insight over 2 years ago
                Jane Stringer, care to offer 'your' science, rather than your criticism? I have a degree in nutritional science . You?!
                Hide reply (1)
                • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                  Removed by moderator.
          • PatrickW over 2 years ago
            Your point about the Inuit diet being healthy is apparently based on a widely accepted and restated myth/misconception - at least according to the research that Dr. Gregor reviews here - https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-and-the-eskimo-fish-tale/ - and some of the sources he cites - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25064579 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12535749
            Hide Replies (3)
            • Insight over 2 years ago
              Dr. Gregor's NutritionFacts.org is the website of a sarcastic cynic who suffers from confirmation bias- finding evidence to support only what he believes. No culture is completely devoid of atherosclerosis. P.S. Association does not equal Causation. SImply put: Humans need to breathe oxygen, yet 100% of oxygen breathers will die. Ergo, breathing oxygen is ASSOCIATED with death. But clearly, it does not CAUSE death.
              Hide Replies (2)
              • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
                Removed by moderator.
              • Marie J over 2 years ago
                lol, agreed, again lol! I've read some of Greger's stuff, lol
          • tschisler over 2 years ago
            The Inuit have a shorter life span which is probably not all diet-related but also due to their harsh climate. They do however have a high incidence of cardiovascular disease. Yes B12 supplements are necessary but nothing else if you eat a large variety of plant foods. Non-heme sources of iron are healthier and more easily absorbable than heme sources of iron. The same goes for Ca - osteoporosis rates are ironically higher in those consuming greater quantities of milk products as opposed to plant sources. There's nothing sensational about my comments. The only sensational aspect of this discussion is the increasing incidence of cardiovascular disease and cancer in our country which nothing more than lifestyle (diet) related.
          • Jane Stringer over 2 years ago
            We can all too easily end up with these deficiency conditions on any type of diet. No one diet fits all, each of us utilizes food differently.
          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
            Removed by moderator.
          • Francois over 2 years ago
            I actually am an MD with a masters in medical research as well and I can attest to undue influence of industry in our training. His all caps writing may be a little zealous but his information is accurate. The quote from the director of cardiovascular epidemiology at Harvard gives a hint of the truth: 'We can't tell people to stop eating all meat and dairy products. Well, we could tell people to become vegetarians. If we were truly basing this on science we would, but it is a bit extreme.` Also, the fact that nitrites found in ham, bacon, sausages, hot dogs, cold cuts are considered a class 1 cancer causing substance by the FDA since 2016, Group 1 by the W.H.O. in 2015 but the initial studies that showed a clear causal effect for cancer began giving such results in 1971. Despite this no warning on the packages. There is much undue influence. I was taught that diabetes was due to rice, pasta and potatoes, 3 things which are almost impossible to turn to fats and have been shown repeatedly as not being the cause. The insulin resistance is due to 2 causes, saturated fats and trans fats, nothing else. Once you have insulin resistance most things you eat will raise your blood sugar because you body can no longer bring it into the cells. As a scientist I was taught the truth requires repeatability and for the study to be confirmed by more than one lab. As a doctor I was taught to only trust large studies (I.E. industry and pharmaceuticals. As a critical researcher I realized that many large studies look at the older smaller ones with negative results and modify parameters to mislead the reader to hide the negative prior results. These are evident in the last 20 years of saturated fat studies, egg studies (on choline among others, etc.). It is difficult to accept I had been parroting lies from school to my patients for 4.5 years.
            Hide reply (1)
            • Mia A over 2 years ago
              I believe that MDs should tell their patients the truth and leave it up to them to make a choice. They have an ethical obligation to do so.
      • cnote over 2 years ago
        Indeed. Eat real food. Mostly plants and not too much. Enough to support exercise, but not body fat. And then exercise.
      • sydney over 2 years ago
        There is everything your body needs in a whole food plant based diet, without the baggage...cholesterol, cancer, pollution, deforestation, climate change, and cruelty. YES, these are all being greatly promoted by animals we slaughter for food....including all meats, dairy, and eggs. Educate yourself about eggs...or Hen periods as they are....highest source of cholesterol in our SAD diets.Avoid all animal products for your health, the planets health, and of course the animals health.
      • Jane Stringer over 2 years ago
        Mostly, I agree. We wouldn't be here if our ancestors hadn't been able to adapt to a tremendous variety of diets. However, I do worry about junk foods and fast foods, which continue to proliferate and become the norm. It would be wonderful if people became more interested in the huge variety of nutritious local produce that most of us can enjoy. I look at my grocery cart, amazed at how good and tasty it all looks. When I was a child we survived on a small range of root vegetables for the colder months. ( How a picky child like I was managed to survive at all makes me wonder.)
        Hide reply (1)
        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
          our ancestors ate 95%+ plant matter, there is plenty of evidence in tooth micro-abrassions, in fossilized feces, radioactive isotope dating to indicate that the real paleo diet was the opposite of what the paleo diet fad is promoting today, our ancestors were more vegetarain than most vegetarians today.
      • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
        Know you already got piled on, but I'm genuinely curious how one can be an ethical vegetarian and not consider making the slight leap to veganism. How is the dairy industry not every bit as ethically problematic as the meat industry, if not even more so? As far as healthiest goes, it's hard to argue with your valid point that we all respond differently and have different optimal nutrition requirements. Given that there is no 'best', isn't it fair to say that the vegan diet requiring *one* supplement doesn't exactly completely undermine it's validity as a potentially very healthy and otherwise complete diet for many, if not most of us? How big is the B12 industry versus every other possible dietary supplement, or indeed medication, that every non-vegan with an unhealthy diet might require? B12 is far from a 'gotcha' moment in any logical argument against veganism. So back to that ethical point of view...?
        Hide Replies (10)
        • Insight over 2 years ago
          Fair question, but you've made a few assumptions, NorthofSixty. I did try veganism, and there is nothing slight about the leap at all. I wish I could avoid all animal products, and am working on it. I don't believe that pigs are food any more than a cat or a dog. And factory farms break my heart. I grew up on a farm where our animals roamed in pastures, and they were pets, not food. I get my eggs from cage-free hens, and directly from the farmers whenever I can. As for dairy, I found cheese alternatives to be disgusting, and cheese is one of my favourite foods. I have not been ready to give it up, and I try to get it from small, ethical farms and/or made without rennet whenever I can. I choose fortified soy dairy alternatives otherwise. (will not be responding to opinionated pot-stirrers about this- not worth my time). This is best for me, for my own unique circumstance and genetics, at this point in my life. Now regarding supplements, vitamin B12 is not the 'only' supplement needed by vegans. Many need iron and vitamin D/calcium supplements also. It takes MUCH planning and work, but I have *never* said a vegan diet isn't healthy. I have simply disgreed that it is the *best* diet for everyone. (In actuality, the Mediterranean diet has proven to be one of the most healthful- including some dairy and fish). My points have all been made in the name of avoiding dichotomous thinking, and to get the opinionated and under-educated (we can't all be nutrition scientists, though some commenters seem to think consulting Dr. Google is enough to qualify) off their soap boxes to look at other points of view. Telling Inuit not to eat fish and go vegan will simply not work and it is genetically NOT the best diet for them. Same with telling Albertan cattle farmers, Maritime fishermen, or Chinese/Korean/Asian chefs in Toronto's Chinatown. We need to realistically think big picture and create an effective and inclusive guide for ALL Canadians.
          Hide Replies (7)
          • NorthOfSixty over 2 years ago
            Thanks for your fair and balanced response too... I agree there are folks whose genetics or other individual circumstances would make a vegan diet more difficult or even impossible. However I would say that cattle farmers and fishermen are more 'economically' ill-suited to the diet than anything else... when you have so much financially and socially invested in living a certain way, and promoting that lifestyle, it's particularly hard to change course. However there are many past cattle, pig or dairy farmers who have made the switch. But back to the guide, yes it should be inclusive, feasible and realistically attainable... alienating folks is counter-productive.
          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
            Iron deficency rates are the same in vegans as non-vegans, why do you keep on repeating that myth ?Dietary intake and biochemical, hematologic, and immune status of vegans compared with nonvegetarians. ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479236 )The impact of vegetarianism on some haematological parameters.( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12460231 )
          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
            Vitamin D and Calcium are low in the general population, it is not a vegan issue, everyone below and above the equator that do not get 20min a day in the sun should supplement, it is a problem of civilization and industrialization.
          • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
            The Mediterranean diet is NOT the best diet, there were studies with long term follow up compared to with plant-based (vegan) diets and the Mediterranean diet did NOT do better. Those on the low-fat whole foods diet has 0.6% cardiovascular event risk vs 25% on the Mediterranean diet (that is a HUGE difference).Mediterranean diet, traditional risk factors, and the rate of cardiovascular complications after myocardial infarction: final report of the Lyon Diet Heart Study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9989963) versus "A way to reverse CAD?" (http://www.mdedge.com/jfponline/article/83345/cardiology/way-reverse-cad )
          • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
            Insight, continue with a balanced diet, there is much fear-mongering and bullying in this process. Dairy is perfectly safe and it has scientifically proven nutritional benefits. Now those soy dairy alternatives, the verdict is still out there on their benefits on disease and illnesses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/
            Hide Replies (2)
            • nzouri over 2 years ago
              The only controversy about soy was brought up by the dairy industry who tried to imply that soy contains an estrogen like substance that may cause breast cancer. It was proven in several scientific studies that soy does not cause cancer. Chinese people who eat a traditional diet mostly plant based with lots of soy are healthier than any other diet groups. The dairy industry conveniently omitted that dairy contains the cow estrogen hormone.
              Hide reply (1)
              • reitsmad over 2 years ago
                They sure aren't eating US soy that is GMO'd then.
        • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
          40% of people from the average population are low on B12 corresponding to USDA (https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2000/b12-deficiency-may-be-more-widespread-than-thought/) so clearly it is NOT exclussive to vegans (that make up only 1% of the population.Healthiest and longest living communities on planet Earth as found out by National Geographic Blue Zones Project (www.BlueZones.com) are those that consume the least amount of meat and the best performing group happens to be the one that has the most vegans (no animal products) ... so there is a diet that is better for most people. I could dive deeper and go into the diets of Rural China, Central Africa, Papua Highlanders and Tarahumara Indians and show you their rates of western diseases, but I lets just look at Blue Zones for now.
        • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
          Dairy follows strict regulation, standards, inspections, if one doesn't consider it ethical that's subjective. http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dr-rl&s2=canada
      • Eugen S. over 2 years ago
        But you are so wrong, Inuits have worse health outcomes when on their traditional diet than when put on a SAD diet (Standard American Diet) .... how is that "quite healthy" exactly ??? Fish oil and the 'Eskimo diet': another medical myth debunked (https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2014/08/fish-oil-and-eskimo-diet-another-medical-myth-debunked) New Study Explodes the ‘Eskimo Myth’ (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neal-barnard-md/eskimo-myth_b_5268420.html) Masai and Inuit High-Protein Diets: A Closer Look ( http://nutritionstudies.org/masai-and-inuit-high-protein-diets-a-closer-look/ )
      • Marie J over 2 years ago
        Thank you! Some sense finally! All I have been seeing is a whole bunch of people on their soapbox. I feel sorry for the moderator and hope they are paid well :)
    • nancyj over 2 years ago
      This is YOUR opinion. I would like to make my own choices if you don't mind. We have our own chickens and our own eggs which are extremely healthful no matter what you think...Please don't push your agenda on others. Not everyone wants to eat eggless egg salad.
  • Francois over 2 years ago
    Here are a few of the health benefits of dairy:1.Largest source of saturated fat and contains trans fats:These 2 fats are the main causes of insulin resistance which leads to weight gain, obesity, diabetes, impotence - also know as erectile dysfunction - (25% of men by age 60), heart attacks and strokes. These are also the main risk factor, other than genetic, which can trigger minimal cognitive impairment and Alzheimer's disease. People who consume a lot of trans fats have also been shown to have memory issues even at age 20. (I will give you more information on the health impact of trans fats in another post in the near future as well as its sources and how they legalized their mislabeling in Canada and the US after the discovery that they were so damaging that no amount above 0 mg/day was safe).2.Major inflammatory source in the body: A major cause of auto-immune and inflammatory disorders. If you have such a disorder such as rheumatoid arthritis, chronic sinusitis, skin problems, you can get a major improvement if not a complete cure by cutting out ALL dairy. These appear to be largely, not completely related to the protein and saturated fats. Lactose intolerance is of less worry because it is more discomfort than the potentially permanent damages which are immune related.3.A cause of multiple cancers: Increases breast cancer risk by 37%, lethal prostate cancer by 81% and ovarian cancer. It doesn't even really matter much if they say no hormones added because a lactating or pregnant cow has higher level of certain hormones naturally. Interesting fact, Phillip Morris international used to defend tobacco by showing other products consumed caused more cancer...one of them being dairy. They purchased Kraft in 1988 and little of this advertising can be found past 1991.4.A major cause of osteoporosis, yes that is right. It doesn't allow your body to improve bone density, it's calcium content doesn't offer benefits in the form present in milk. If you drink 3 or ore glasses a day you will have 60% more chance of getting a hip fracture. Commercials have no requirement to tel the truth and should be regarded as dishonest used car salesman. Doctors will just repeat guidelines which are often determined by industry representatives or corporately supported/financed healthcare workers. In many cases the science can seem contradictory until you understand statistical manipulation and parameter adjustments made to create misinforming/borderline falsified research which are then promoted in the media to make sponsors happy. (I will give in later posts how certain studies were falsified such as the last 20 years of saturated fat research and the idea that eggs are healthy).5. Iron deficiency anemia, yes, if you drink a lot of milk, you will absorb less iron.6. Type 1 diabetes. There are a series of studies that show that dairy can trigger type one diabetes. The main culprits appear to be either casein or the natural cow insulin which has molecular mimicry which components of your pancreatic beta cells causing the autoimmune reaction which destroys them. The younger one is at the exposure the more risk (much higher if exposed below 3 months of age).7. Due to all the health issues involved, each glass of milk per day increases cause of death of all causes by 15% until you reach 3 or more then it is 93% higher than those who do not drink dairy. In other words: Milk, it does nobody good.8. Philip Morris international used to defend themselves by pointing to dairy as causing more cancer than tobacco, this stopped 3 years after purchasing Kraft in 1988.
    Hide Replies (13)
    • arthursc over 2 years ago
      After reading the first few words, I was so confused about how you thought any of these were benefits - then I read through and realized you were being facetious. Agreed though - no need for dairy in the human diet whatsoever. The only benefits include additives (like Vit D) that can be added to so many other foods that don't do horrible things to your body.
      Hide reply (1)
      • Francois over 2 years ago
        Yup, sorry should have posted in other side, was one of my first posts,
    • Mackenzieva over 2 years ago
      I'd love to share this with people. Can you cite your sources?
      Hide Replies (7)
    • mjxshipton over 2 years ago
      Fat causes insulin resistance? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Why don't you go check your physiology, because insulin is a glucose-related hormone. This is the biggest piece of pro-agenda misinformation I've ever seen, and explains why the food guide has so little actual science behind it.
    • colejster over 2 years ago
      Agree 100% with this piece. From what I've learned, we've been sold on the benefits of cow-based dairy by the people who make a living out of that business. People with expertise in this area and without any financial ties to the dairy industry are more likely to give us the truth on this subject. Such people seem to be telling us that cow-based dairy products are not only bad for us healthwise but that the negative environmental impact of this business is very significant. Why doesn't Health Canada seek to tell the truth on this subject? Does the dairy industry have some sort of hold over that federal agency?
    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
      Your first sentence is absolutely ridiculous in saying fat is the main cause of T2D. Non alcoholic fatty liver disease which leads to the development of T2D is caused by an over intake of fructose. Over consumption is primarily from sugary drinks, fruit juice (just not healthy!) and easily digestible carbohydrates such as bread (white or whole wheat makes no difference because of the over processing). I couldn't bring myself to go through your other claims which apparently come from vegan / animal rights sponsored studies that are completely ridiculous by making such broad associative claims.
  • pmt99955 over 2 years ago
    Making regular intake of vegetables and protein-rich foods is a good thing so long as they are nutrient-dense and not processed. As far as fruit goes, natural sugar is better for the body but too much can cause increased insulin production which can have catastrophic effects on the body. Whole grains are debatable based on GMO grain production. Why are protein-rich foods based on plant-based sources of protein being considered over meat based proteins? Is it because meat sources contain saturated fats and the inclusion of these fats go against the recommendation of unsaturated fats? Please reference the following study on saturated fats: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648
    Hide reply (1)
    • reitsmad over 2 years ago
      What is unnatural sugar? The body sees it as fructose and glucose whether it is fruit or some other source. There is no proven connection of saturated fat with heart disease or cancer. The WHO is backing down from this. Association does not mean causation but that's all anyone has to go on if they want to demonize fat and deflect away from the problem being processed seed oils, white flour, white rice and sugar. The reference you are using is case in point of trying to make a broad association say that they have determined cause, as it says in the title.
  • Vee Robillard over 2 years ago
    If I can share with a case study of sorts. My wife and I are in our mid fifties. We had been playing of the edge of vegan- ism for a few years now believing that a gradual move towards plant based was smart for health reasons primarily. As a 56 year old man, I weighed 260 pounds, my blood pressure got up to 155/110, I was diagnosed as Type II Diabetic, and my cholesterol was high (ratio much too high for Diabetics.) So, 6 weeks ago, we made the leap to 100% whole food plant based eating (along with minimal sugar, minimal wheat until I reach my weight loss target). Now, after only 6 weeks, I have lost 32 pounds, my blood pressure tracks around 100/60, and most importantly my blood glucose is within normal ranges (4.5 - 7.5) no matter when I check. Haven't tested blood cholestorol yet, but I fully expect my cholesterol ratio (LDL to HDL) will also come back from the lab with positive results.Plant based eating works, and with only a tiny bit of care and attention, it's not boring either. We don't miss meat at all. Being VEGAN is NOT a sacrifice. It's a choice based on wanting to be healthier, live longer, and not supporting corporate animal farming/abuse.A plant based CFG is an AMAZING step forward. Thank you. This gives me great hope for our country, the health of Canadians, and the lower incidental costs to our health care system.
    Hide Replies (38)
    • Michael Ritzker over 2 years ago
      I have a similar tale to tell which I just finished posting. Michael Ritzker
    • janeisgreen over 2 years ago
      Congratulations, Vee!
    • Jody Lacroix over 2 years ago
      I am so happy to hear you are doing do well! WFPB forever!
    • havear over 2 years ago
      Thank you for sharing, Vee. My mother who is in her late 60s transitioned to a plant-based diet a little over one year ago and has experienced amazing health benefits, including going off her cholesterol meds for which she was told she would be dependent for the rest of her life.
    • ckadlec over 2 years ago
      I'm almost 50 years old and being vegan for 6 years...I feel better now than when I was in my twenties! I wish I was vegan from birth but then we are all brain washed as soon as we are born. Regardless, I don't need any studies or the internet, it's how I feel and my husband, it's a huge awakening and recently we ditched all the oils in our home, including olive oil...a very processed food! Eat olives if you like. I agree with you when I saw that Canada is finally doing something, my heart skipped a beat with excitement! By the way my dog is even vegan and is very healthy too. His coat is very shiny and teeth white as can be, he's almost 5 years old. He loves his vegetables and coconut kefir LOL Dogs can be vegan as well and I feed him also a whole food plant based diet. There is a great vegan dog food cook book, just look it up on amazon.
      Hide Replies (22)
      • ryanshaw over 2 years ago
        I've consumed dairy all my life, I feel fantastic! Not only was I able to obtain 3 degrees, but I've never been sick nor had a broken bone. My family is living on average +100 yrs old!